X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [24.25.9.102] (HELO ms-smtp-03-eri0.southeast.rr.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c5) with ESMTP id 938338 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 09 May 2005 23:53:46 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.102; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-024-074-189-178.carolina.res.rr.com [24.74.189.178]) by ms-smtp-03-eri0.southeast.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id j4A3qvY5008016 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 23:52:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001101c55513$c27e16b0$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: center rotor OFF Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 23:53:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C554F2.3B29A150" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C554F2.3B29A150 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Great idea, Jack. However, I had enough problem seemingly to keep one = engine running in phase {:>) Ed A ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jack Ford=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 10:55 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: center rotor OFF Very simple, just run two engines synchronized 180 degrees apart (or = would that reinforce all those decibels?) I may have just fallen out of my tree. Jack Ford ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ed Anderson=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 3:21 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: center rotor OFF Seems to me that the acoustical wave generated by the canceling = device would have to be of a magnitude similar to the amplitude of the = nose wave you are trying to cancel - that's like 125+ db!!!. Plus its = speaker would probably need to be able to withstand a great deal of heat = surely in the 100s of degrees F. The theory has been around for years, = but the practically of the idea - at least for engine exhaust for = aircraft has eluded me for certain. But who knows? if its possible then = its just technology that is needed to meet the conditions of the = environment (very harsh and hostile). Ed A ----- Original Message -----=20 From: David Staten=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 6:04 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: center rotor OFF Ok... so whats the solution for all the people who are nearby when = you fire the engine up? Your neighbors, etc? =20 Dave Mark R Steitle wrote: Here is the answer to the muffler problem. Active Noise = Control. No big, heavy, draggy muffler needed. =20 .Active Noise Control is unique to this vehicle. Active Noise = Control (ANC) uses sound waves generated from the audio speakers to = cancel out any booming noise from the powertrain. The ANC controller = uses a microphone to detect any noise and then generates a signal 180 = degrees out of phase to cancel out the original noise.=20 Mark S. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Russell Duffy Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 2:24 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: center rotor OFF I'm thinking this would not be a good plan. For the piston = engines you referred to, I bet they have a way to control the valves = with solenoids so the deactivated pistons aren't producing compression.=20 Actually they do have compression. No fuel or fire.=20 Bill Jepson=20 OK, make me look it up :-) Apparently, they stop the valves = from opening, rather than leaving them open. I couldn't find anything = that gave details of exactly what point in the sequence they stop the = valves, so the cylinder could either be full of air (silly and wasteful = of power), empty of air (would cause vacuum that would be as bad as the = compression force), or perhaps somewhere in between. =20 Here's the best article I found, though with annoying ads. = Don't forget about those active controlled engine mounts to smooth out = the 3 cylinder operation in economy mode. Just boggles the mind what = they'll do to make improvements in economy.=20 http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/041014.htm Cheers, Rusty (Great Plains VW 2180 running, and for sale) >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C554F2.3B29A150 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Great idea, Jack.  However, I had = enough=20 problem seemingly to keep one engine running in phase = {:>)
 
Ed A
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Jack Ford
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 = 10:55 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: center = rotor=20 OFF

Very simple, just run two engines = synchronized=20 180 degrees apart (or would that reinforce all those = decibels?)
I may have just fallen out of my=20 tree.
 
Jack Ford
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ed Anderson
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 = 3:21=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = center rotor=20 OFF

Seems to me that the acoustical = wave generated=20 by the canceling device would have to be of a magnitude similar to = the=20 amplitude of the nose wave you are trying to cancel - that's like = 125+=20 db!!!.  Plus its speaker would probably need to be able to = withstand a=20 great deal of heat surely in the 100s of degrees F.  The theory = has=20 been around for years, but the practically of the idea - at least = for engine=20 exhaust for aircraft has eluded me for certain. But who knows? if = its=20 possible then its just technology that is needed to meet the = conditions of=20 the environment (very harsh and hostile).
 
Ed A
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 David=20 Staten
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 = 6:04=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = center rotor=20 OFF

Ok... so whats the solution for all the people who = are=20 nearby when you fire the engine up? Your neighbors,=20 etc?
 
Dave

Mark R Steitle wrote:

Here = is the=20 answer to the muffler problem.  Active Noise Control.  = No big,=20 heavy, draggy muffler needed.  =  

<snip from=20 =93Canadian Driver=94 article>

=85Active Noise=20 Control is unique to this vehicle. Active Noise Control (ANC) = uses sound=20 waves generated from the audio speakers to cancel out any = booming noise=20 from the powertrain. The ANC controller uses a microphone to = detect any=20 noise and then generates a signal 180 degrees out of phase to = cancel out=20 the original noise.

<snip>

Mark=20 S.

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironlin= e.net]=20 On Behalf Of = Russell=20 Duffy
Sent: = Monday, May=20 09, 2005 2:24 PM
To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = center=20 rotor OFF

I'm = thinking=20 this would not be a good plan.  For the piston engines you = referred=20 to, I bet they have a way to control the valves with solenoids = so the=20 deactivated pistons aren't producing=20 compression. 

Actually they do = have=20 compression. No fuel or fire. =

Bill=20 Jepson 

OK, = make me look=20 it up :-)  Apparently, they stop the valves from=20 opening, rather than leaving them open.  I couldn't = find=20 anything that gave details of exactly what point in the sequence = they=20 stop the valves, so the cylinder could either be full of air = (silly and=20 wasteful of power), empty of air (would cause vacuum that would = be as=20 bad as the compression force), or perhaps somewhere in=20 between.  

Here's = the best=20 article I found, though with annoying ads.  Don't = forget about=20 those active controlled engine mounts to smooth out the 3 = cylinder=20 operation in economy mode.  Just boggles the mind what = they'll do=20 to make improvements in economy. 

http://www.= canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/041014.htm

Cheers,

Rusty = (Great=20 Plains VW 2180 running, and for sale)

>>  Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/

>>  Archive:   =
http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html
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