X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail.theofficenet.com ([65.166.240.5] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c5) with SMTP id 938279 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 09 May 2005 22:55:57 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.166.240.5; envelope-from=jackoford@theofficenet.com Received: (qmail 13742 invoked from network); 10 May 2005 02:38:46 -0000 Received: from dpc691941229.direcpc.com (HELO toshibauser) (69.19.41.229) by mail.theofficenet.com with SMTP; 10 May 2005 02:38:46 -0000 Message-ID: <00bc01c5550b$b08b2f40$0700a8c0@toshibauser> From: "Jack Ford" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: center rotor OFF Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 19:55:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B7_01C554D1.0114B700" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B7_01C554D1.0114B700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Very simple, just run two engines synchronized 180 degrees apart (or = would that reinforce all those decibels?) I may have just fallen out of my tree. Jack Ford ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ed Anderson=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 3:21 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: center rotor OFF Seems to me that the acoustical wave generated by the canceling device = would have to be of a magnitude similar to the amplitude of the nose = wave you are trying to cancel - that's like 125+ db!!!. Plus its = speaker would probably need to be able to withstand a great deal of heat = surely in the 100s of degrees F. The theory has been around for years, = but the practically of the idea - at least for engine exhaust for = aircraft has eluded me for certain. But who knows? if its possible then = its just technology that is needed to meet the conditions of the = environment (very harsh and hostile). Ed A ----- Original Message -----=20 From: David Staten=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 6:04 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: center rotor OFF Ok... so whats the solution for all the people who are nearby when = you fire the engine up? Your neighbors, etc? =20 Dave Mark R Steitle wrote: Here is the answer to the muffler problem. Active Noise Control. = No big, heavy, draggy muffler needed. =20 .Active Noise Control is unique to this vehicle. Active Noise = Control (ANC) uses sound waves generated from the audio speakers to = cancel out any booming noise from the powertrain. The ANC controller = uses a microphone to detect any noise and then generates a signal 180 = degrees out of phase to cancel out the original noise.=20 Mark S. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Russell Duffy Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 2:24 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: center rotor OFF I'm thinking this would not be a good plan. For the piston = engines you referred to, I bet they have a way to control the valves = with solenoids so the deactivated pistons aren't producing compression.=20 Actually they do have compression. No fuel or fire.=20 Bill Jepson=20 OK, make me look it up :-) Apparently, they stop the valves from = opening, rather than leaving them open. I couldn't find anything that = gave details of exactly what point in the sequence they stop the valves, = so the cylinder could either be full of air (silly and wasteful of = power), empty of air (would cause vacuum that would be as bad as the = compression force), or perhaps somewhere in between. =20 Here's the best article I found, though with annoying ads. Don't = forget about those active controlled engine mounts to smooth out the 3 = cylinder operation in economy mode. Just boggles the mind what they'll = do to make improvements in economy.=20 http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/041014.htm Cheers, Rusty (Great Plains VW 2180 running, and for sale) >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_00B7_01C554D1.0114B700 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Very simple, just run two engines = synchronized 180=20 degrees apart (or would that reinforce all those decibels?)

I may have just fallen out of my = tree.

Jack Ford

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ed=20 Anderson
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft

Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 3:21 = PM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: center = rotor=20 OFF

Seems to me that the acoustical wave = generated by=20 the canceling device would have to be of a magnitude similar to the = amplitude=20 of the nose wave you are trying to cancel - that's like 125+ = db!!!. Plus=20 its speaker would probably need to be able to withstand a great deal = of heat=20 surely in the 100s of degrees F. The theory has been around for = years,=20 but the practically of the idea - at least for engine exhaust for = aircraft has=20 eluded me for certain. But who knows? if its possible then its just = technology=20 that is needed to meet the conditions of the environment (very harsh = and=20 hostile).

Ed A

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 David=20 Staten
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20

Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 = 6:04=20 PM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = center rotor=20 OFF

Ok... so whats the solution for all the people who = are nearby=20 when you fire the engine up? Your neighbors,=20 etc?

Dave

Mark R Steitle wrote:

Here is = the=20 answer to the muffler problem. Active Noise Control. = No big,=20 heavy, draggy muffler needed. =

<snip from=20 =93Canadian Driver=94 article>

=85Active Noise=20 Control is unique to this vehicle. Active Noise Control (ANC) uses = sound=20 waves generated from the audio speakers to cancel out any booming = noise=20 from the powertrain. The ANC controller uses a microphone to = detect any=20 noise and then generates a signal 180 degrees out of phase to = cancel out=20 the original noise.

<snip>

Mark=20 S.

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironlin= e.net]=20 On Behalf Of = Russell=20 Duffy
Sent: = Monday, May=20 09, 2005 2:24 PM
To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = center rotor=20 OFF

I'm = thinking this=20 would not be a good plan. For the piston engines you = referred to, I=20 bet they have a way to control the valves with solenoids so the=20 deactivated pistons aren't producing = compression.

Actually they do = have=20 compression. No fuel or fire.

Bill = Jepson

OK, make = me look=20 it up :-) Apparently, they stop the valves from = opening, rather=20 than leaving them open. I couldn't find anything that gave = details=20 of exactly what point in the sequence they stop the valves, so the = cylinder could either be full of air (silly and wasteful of = power), empty=20 of air (would cause vacuum that would be as bad as the compression = force),=20 or perhaps somewhere in between.

Here's = the best=20 article I found, though with annoying ads. Don't forget = about=20 those active controlled engine mounts to smooth out the 3 = cylinder=20 operation in economy mode. Just boggles the mind what = they'll do to=20 make improvements in economy.

http://www.= canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/041014.htm

Cheers,

Rusty = (Great=20 Plains VW 2180 running, and for sale)

>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive: = http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html
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