X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from rwcrmhc14.comcast.net ([216.148.227.89] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c5) with ESMTP id 938170 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 09 May 2005 20:22:07 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.148.227.89; envelope-from=techwelding@comcast.net Received: from dell (pcp08732020pcs.paduca01.ky.comcast.net[69.139.125.92]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc14) with SMTP id <2005051000211801400ee3hee>; Tue, 10 May 2005 00:21:19 +0000 Message-ID: <001a01c554f6$2b7dcd40$5c7d8b45@dell> From: "Ed Klepeis" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: To Lynn Hanover re: windage trays Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 19:21:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Dear Jerry If you want give me the dim and the plate that bolts to the eng and I would weld up and alum pan. Let me know Regards Ed K techwelding@comcast.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Hey" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 7:09 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: To Lynn Hanover re: windage trays > Should have been a jpeg. I will send again. Jerry > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > On Monday, May 9, 2005, at 07:01 PM, Dale Rogers wrote: > >> David, >> >> I saved to disk and opened in another browser window. >> It was a line drawing - probably a .gif file. >> >> >> >>> From: "David Carter" >>> Date: 2005/05/09 Mon PM 07:21:44 EDT >>> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" >>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: To Lynn Hanover re: windage trays >>> >>> Jerry, I noticed a "paper clip" on your e-mail so clicked it - >>> assumed it would be a .jpg picture of the pan. When I clicked "save >>> attachment" I got warning "Trying to save a file with .dat >>> extension". I didn't open or save it. Any chance it is a virus >>> attachment? >>> >>> David >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Jerry Hey >>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>> Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 3:36 PM >>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: To Lynn Hanover re: windage trays >>> >>> >>> >>> On Friday, May 6, 2005, at 09:07 PM, Lehanover@aol.com wrote: >>> >>> >>> In a message dated 05/06/2005 06:44 Central Daylight Time, >>> jerryhey@earthlink.net writes: >>> >>> Lynn, I would appreciate your advice. I am starting out to build >>> wedge oil pans and wonder about the advisability of having a windage >>> tray at all since they are not used stock 13-B or Renesis. The >>> Renesis oil pan has a sub floor about .75 inches above the actual >>> real >>> bottom where oil can be trapped and presumably de-frothed. This >>> might only be necessary because the pan is so shallow. I don't know >>> and am looking forward to hearing your comments. The wedge oil >>> pans >>> would be much deeper toward rear and that is where I hope to place >>> the >>> pick up. Thanks, Jerry >>> >>> >>> >>> The primary reason for the windage tray in rotary racing with the >>> internal pump, is to keep the entire oil supply from filling up the >>> front cover and uncovering the pickup under hard braking. >>> >>> I have thought about the problem of keeping the pickup covered >>> during climb and descent. >>> How much of a climb angle would be tolerated before a problem >>> develops. Riding down to Sun&Fun in the Bonanza I decided the angles >>> involved were just too shallow to be a factor. >>> >>> That only leaves the defoaming as a benefit. We were racing without >>> a tray for years before adding one. During a race (40 minutes) the >>> oil pressure would drop from 85-90 PSI to 70 PSI. >>> >>> Some of that from oil temps going up, and some from oil foaming. We >>> were putting it up into the front cover under braking and foaming the >>> crap out of it with the front counter weight. This is with a stock >>> pan with a quart of oil extra added. >>> >>> A conical shaped pan with the pickup at the inverted apex would >>> seem close to the ideal if you maintain the internal pump. If you >>> want the tray for defoaming I would suggest a flat plate with a 5/8" >>> gap around the edges the full size of the pan. Or try the deep pan >>> without any tray at all. If you don't use steep climb angles the oil >>> will stay off of the front counter weight and little foaming will >>> occur. Most foaming in the straight line is cooling oil from the >>> rotors, and that exits at an angle before it gets to the pan and is >>> just below the breather port. >>> >>> Lynn E. Hanover >>> >>> >>> Thanks Lynn, I always learn a lot from your comments. Consider a >>> tractor config climbing vertically. If a windage tray covered the >>> back 1/3 of the pan, the pick up would probably remained covered and >>> little oil would be able to enter the front cover. As you said, at >>> more normal angles, it would not be a problem with or without the >>> tray. Those engines using Tracy's old pan plate and also the CC pan >>> plate are in the windage tray plus stock pan category. No problems >>> have ever been mentioned as far as I know. >>> >>> Considering the Wedge pan, the way I built mine was to first make a >>> .125 thick aluminum windage tray that I used as a foundation to weld >>> up the pan. Thus the tray and pan became a single unit. The problem I >>> have experienced with this is that it is difficult when installing >>> the pan to feed it over the pick up tube. I think it would be better >>> after welding up the pan to completely cut out the center of the tray >>> leaving only the bolt flange very similar to the stock pan. A >>> separate windage tray, quite thin, could be added if desired. >>> >>> The wedge oil pan is Paul Lamar's idea. For those unfamiliar with it, >>> it is intended to save space under the engine for the belly radiator >>> and plenum. I modified the pan shape to make it deepest at the pick >>> up tube. Perhaps I should have moved the pick up to the rear of he >>> pan instead. I would appreciate anyone's thoughts on this. BTW, the >>> wedge pan capacity as I built it is the same as the stock pan and the >>> full length wedge is a little larger. Jerry >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---------- >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---------- >>> >>> >>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>>> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>> >>> >> >> >>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html >