X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [199.185.220.220] (HELO priv-edtnes57.telusplanet.net) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c5) with ESMTP id 913910 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:09:11 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=199.185.220.220; envelope-from=echolakeresort@telus.net Received: from boucher-oddle24 ([207.194.26.16]) by priv-edtnes57.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.6.01.04.04 201-2131-118-104-20050224) with ESMTP id <20050425160819.MMEL1730.priv-edtnes57.telusplanet.net@boucher-oddle24> for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:08:19 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.308 [266.10.2]); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:08:17 -0700 Message-Id: <426D15ED.000006.02628@BOUCHER-ODDLE24> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:08:13 -0700 (Pacific Standard Time) X-Mailer: IncrediMail (3001609) From: "Echo Lake Fishing Resort (Georges Boucher)" References: To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Soft Seals Sloppy slots S^4 X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=======AVGMAIL-426D15F17CAA=======" --=======AVGMAIL-426D15F17CAA======= Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_PHFI12S0000000000000" --------------Boundary-00=_PHFI12S0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi! All=0D On the apex seal subject, being that Tracy's seals are one piece (main section) they will not have tendency to pivot out of the slot. As well th= e concave wear on the sides of the seal should be minimized. I'm just makin= g a die to tighten up the "V" in the slot on my hydraulic press with a full b= ase support, If it restores the parallelism of the slots & not just bend the tips over I will use the rotors with RWS seals. The last 13b I dismantled had a 2.43mm opening at the top of the slot & the seal was concave to the point that the center was less than half the original thickness (this eng= ine had 168000KM). I'll keep you posted.=0D Georges Boucher (trying not to let business interfere with projects)=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: Rotary motors in aircraft=0D Date: 04/25/05 04:47:49=0D To: Rotary motors in aircraft=0D Subject: [FlyRotary] Soft Seals Sloppy slots S^4=0D =0D Right, John=0D =0D This past Saturday was two weeks from the incident, mainly waiting for=0D parts. I tore down and rebuilt the engine over 3 days, but actually time= =0D was probably around 10 hours. Total cost was closer to $2500 what with=0D both new rotor, housings gaskets, seals, etc. However, I believe a compl= ete=0D rebuild of a Lycoming with all new cylinders and pistons, etc, would have= =0D run a bit more {:>) Not infrequently a catastrophic failure of a Lycomi= ng=0D means replacement of the crank and even the case, if a rod let go. So al= l=0D things considered I'm sure glad I fly behind a rotor.=0D =0D The more I think about my incident and having talked to two other folks w= ho=0D used the Hurley seals and later took their engine apart, that what may ha= ve=0D been the dominant factors were soft seals and sloppy apex slots. My frie= nd=0D in Az just took apart one of this two engines that he had flow with (not=0D related to a apex seal problem), he reported that he was surprised at how= =0D worn his Hurley seals were. Very similar to mind with a considerable amo= unt=0D of material removed the length of the seal where it rubbed against the ed= ge=0D of the slot. I think Rusty also reported the same.=0D A second person who had his engine apart due to an oil leak reported the=0D seals from Tracy Crook/Bruce T looked like new.=0D =0D If the seals were soft either by design for failure in the manufacturing=0D process, then the wear and lost of material in a critical area of the sea= l=0D combined with side forces due to the worn slot were probably not a=0D combination due for long life.=0D =0D Going out this AM to install the engine in the aircraft, hopefully will h= ave=0D it ready to by tomorrow.=0D =0D Best Regards=0D =0D Ed A=0D =0D =0D ----- Original Message -----=0D From: "John Slade" =0D To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" =0D Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 11:35 PM=0D Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EWP Installation Update=0D =0D =0D >> Well, Bob, I did finish the engine rebuild tonight and loaded it=0D >> in the Van.=0D > What's that, Ed - 2 weeks waiting, maybe 4 days work, and about $1500 i= n=0D > parts?=0D > This whole story makes a very interesting comparison to the Lycoming=0D > powered=0D > Cozy that recently threw an exhaust valve at 6000' over Long Island. He= =0D > barely made it into Farmingdale where it is now parked behind an FBO wh= ile=0D > the owner figures out how to either come up with $15k .... or....???=0D >=0D > John (new wood floor all done....next?)=0D >=0D >=0D >=0D >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=0D >>> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html=0D >=0D =0D =0D =0D >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=0D >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html=0D =0D =0D --=0D No virus found in this incoming message.=0D Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.=0D Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.2 - Release Date: 4/21/2005=0D =0D =2E --------------Boundary-00=_PHFI12S0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi! All
On the apex seal subject, being that Tracy's seals are one piec= e (main section) they will not have tendency to pivot out of the&nbs= p;slot. As well the concave wear on the sides of the seal should be minim= ized. I'm just making a die to tighten up the "V" in the slot on my hydra= ulic press with a full base support, If it restores the parallelism of th= e slots & not just bend the tips over I will use the rotors with RWS = seals. The last 13b I dismantled had a 2.43mm opening at the top of the s= lot & the seal was concave to the point that the center was less than= half the original thickness (this engine had 168000KM). I'll keep you po= sted.
Georges Boucher (trying not to let business interfere with projects)=
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 04/25/05 04:= 47:49
Subject: [FlyRotar= y] Soft Seals Sloppy slots S^4
 
Right, John
 
This past Saturday was two weeks from the incident, mainly waiting f= or
parts.  I tore down and rebuilt the engine over 3 days, bu= t actually time
was probably around 10 hours.   Total cost was closer to $= 2500 what with
both new rotor, housings gaskets, seals, etc.  However, I = believe a complete
rebuild of a Lycoming with all new cylinders and pistons, etc, would= have
run a bit more {:>)  Not infrequently a  cata= strophic failure of a Lycoming
means replacement of the crank and even the case, if a rod let go.&n= bsp; So all
things considered I'm sure glad I fly behind a rotor.
 
The more I think about my incident and having talked to two other fo= lks who
used the Hurley seals and later took their engine apart, that what m= ay have
been the dominant factors were soft seals and sloppy apex slots.&nbs= p; My friend
in Az just took apart one of this two engines that he had flow with = (not
related to a apex seal problem), he reported that he was surprised a= t how
worn his Hurley seals were.  Very similar to mind with a c= onsiderable amount
of material removed the length of the seal where it rubbed against t= he edge
of the slot.  I think Rusty also reported the same.
A second person who had his engine apart due to an oil leak reported= the
seals from Tracy Crook/Bruce T looked like new.
 
If the seals were soft either by design for failure in the manufactu= ring
process, then the wear and lost of material in a critical area of th= e seal
combined with side forces due to the worn slot were probably not&nbs= p; a
combination  due for long life.
 
Going out this AM to install the engine in the aircraft, hopefully w= ill have
it ready to by tomorrow.
 
Best Regards
 
Ed A
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Slade" <slad= erj@bellsouth.net>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 11:35 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EWP Installation Update
 
 
>> Well, Bob, I did finish the engine rebuild tonight and load= ed it
>> in the Van.
> What's that, Ed - 2 weeks waiting, maybe 4 days work, and about= $1500 in
> parts?
> This whole story makes a very interesting comparison to the Lyc= oming
> powered
> Cozy that recently threw an exhaust valve at 6000' over Long Is= land. He
> barely made it into Farmingdale where it is now parked behind a= n FBO while
> the owner figures out how to either come up with $15k .... or..= =2E.???
>
> John (new wood floor all done....next?)
>
>
>
>>>  Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
>
 
 
 
>>  Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
 
 
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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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