X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [129.116.87.170] (HELO MAIL01.austin.utexas.edu) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c5) with ESMTP id 913749 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:21:56 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=129.116.87.170; envelope-from=mark.steitle@austin.utexas.edu X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C54999.A54C196A" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Soft Seals Sloppy slots S^4 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:21:10 -0500 Message-ID: <87DBA06C9A5CB84B80439BA09D86E69EC08237@MAIL01.austin.utexas.edu> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Re: Soft Seals Sloppy slots S^4 Thread-Index: AcVJmQs/2sk4QnwaSVOYpLTd38YT1AAAFeYA From: "Mark R Steitle" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C54999.A54C196A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ed, To confirm this, could you have a rockwell hardness test performed on the old seals? It sure would be nice to know if the Hurley seals are defective. Good luck with the new engine. =20 Mark S. =20 =20 ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of kenpowell@comcast.net Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 8:16 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Soft Seals Sloppy slots S^4 =20 Hi Ed, This has been quite an education for me. Looks like my Hurley apex seals are going to up for sale on Ebay. I WILL be measuring the apex seal slots on all 4 rotors in my shop. (Yeah, I'm yet another who missed this critical measurement!) Ken Powell=20 Bryant, Arkansas=20 501-847-4721 =20 -------------- Original message --------------=20 =09 > Right, John=20 >=20 > This past Saturday was two weeks from the incident, mainly waiting for=20 > parts. I tore down and rebuilt the engine over 3 days, but actually time=20 > was probably around 10 hours. Total cost was closer to $2500 what with=20 > both new rotor, housings gaskets, seals, etc. However, I believe a complete=20 > rebuild of a Lycoming with all new cylinders and pistons, etc, would have=20 > run a bit more {:>) Not infrequently a catastrophic failure of a Lycoming=20 > means replacement of the crank and even the case, if a rod let go. So all=20 > things considered I'm sure glad I fly behind a rotor.=20 >=20 > The more I think about my incident and having talked to two other folks who=20 > used the Hurley seals and later took their engine apart, that what may have=20 > been the dominant factors were soft seals and sloppy apex slots. My friend=20 > in Az just took apart one of this two engines that he had flow with (not=20 > related to a apex seal problem), he reported that he was surprised at how=20 > worn his Hurley seals were. Very similar to mind with a considerable amount=20 > of material removed the length of the seal where it rubbed against the edge=20 > of the slot. I think Rusty also reported the same.=20 > A second person who had his engine apart due to an oil leak reported the=20 > seals from Tracy Crook/Bruce T looked like new.=20 >=20 > If the seals were soft either by design for failure in the manufacturing=20 > process, then the wear and lost of material in a critical area of the seal=20 > combined with side forces due to the worn slot were probably not a=20 > combination due for long life.=20 >=20 > Going out this AM to install the engine in the aircraft, hopefully will have=20 > it ready to by tomorrow.=20 >=20 > Best Regards=20 >=20 > Ed A=20 >=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "John Slade"=20 > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft"=20 > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 11:35 PM=20 > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EWP Installation Update=20 >=20 >=20 > >> Well, Bob, I did finish the engine rebuild tonight and loaded it=20 > >> in the Van.=20 > > What's that, Ed - 2 weeks waiting, maybe 4 days work, and about $1500 in=20 > > parts?=20 > > This whole story makes a very interesting comparison to the Lycoming=20 > > powered=20 > > Cozy that recently threw an exhaust valve at 6000' over Long Island. He=20 > > barely made it into Farmingdale where it is now parked behind an FBO while=20 > > the owner figures out how to either come up with $15k .... or....???=20 > >=20 > > John (new wood floor all done....next?)=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 > >>> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20 > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 > >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------_=_NextPart_001_01C54999.A54C196A Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ed,

To confirm this, could you have a = rockwell hardness test performed on the old seals?  It sure would be nice to = know if the Hurley seals are defective.  Good luck with the new = engine.

 

Mark S.  =

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of kenpowell@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, April 25, = 2005 8:16 AM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Soft Seals Sloppy slots S^4

 

Hi Ed,

This has been quite an education for me.  Looks like my = Hurley apex seals are going to up for sale on Ebay.  I WILL be measuring = the apex seal slots on all 4 rotors in my shop.  (Yeah, I'm yet another = who missed this critical measurement!)


Ken Powell
Bryant, Arkansas
501-847-4721

 

-------------- Original message --------------

> Right, John
>
> This past Saturday was two weeks from the incident, mainly waiting = for
> parts. I tore down and rebuilt the engine over 3 days, but actually = time
> was probably around 10 hours. Total cost was closer to $2500 what = with
> both new rotor, housings gaskets, seals, etc. However, I believe a complete
> rebuild of a Lycoming with all new cylinders and pistons, etc, = would have
> run a bit more {:>) Not infrequently a catastrophic failure of a Lycoming
> means replacement of the crank and even the case, if a rod let go. = So all
> things considered I'm sure glad I fly behind a rotor.
>
> The more I think about my incident and having talked to two other = folks who
> used the Hurley seals and later took their engine apart, that what = may have
> been the dominant factors were soft seals and sloppy apex slots. My = friend
> in Az just took apart one of this two engines that he had flow with = (not
> related to a apex seal problem), he reported that he was surprised = at how
> worn his Hurley seals were. Very similar to mind with a = considerable amount
> of material removed the length of the seal where it rubbed against = the edge
> of the slot. I think Rusty also reported the same.
> A second person who had his engine apart due to an oil leak = reported the
> seals from Tracy Crook/Bruce T looked like new.
>
> If the seals were soft either by design for failure in the = manufacturing
> process, then the wear and lost of material in a critical area of = the seal
> combined with side forces due to the worn slot were probably not a =
> combination due for long life.
>
> Going out this AM to install the engine in the aircraft, hopefully = will have
> it ready to by tomorrow.
>
> Best Regards
>
> Ed A
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Slade"
> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" =
> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 11:35 PM =
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EWP Installation Update
>
>
> >> Well, Bob, I did finish the engine rebuild tonight and = loaded it
> >> in the Van.
> > What's that, Ed - 2 weeks waiting, maybe 4 days work, and = about $1500 in
> > parts?
> > This whole story makes a very interesting comparison to the = Lycoming
> > powered
> > Cozy that recently threw an exhaust valve at 6000' over = Long Island. He
> > barely made it into Farmingdale where it is now parked behind = an FBO while
> > the owner figures out how to either come up with $15k .... = or....???
> >
> > John (new wood floor all done....next?)
> >
> >
> >
> >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
> >>> Archive: = http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html
> >
>
>
>
> >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
> >> Archive: = http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html =

------_=_NextPart_001_01C54999.A54C196A--