X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail28.syd.optusnet.com.au ([211.29.133.169] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c5) with ESMTPS id 912007 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 01:43:20 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=211.29.133.169; envelope-from=lendich@optusnet.com.au Received: from george (d220-236-63-141.dsl.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.236.63.141]) by mail28.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j3N5gSQp007169 for ; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 15:42:31 +1000 Message-ID: <001d01c547c7$c815c0e0$8d3fecdc@george> From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: All Parts have arrived, Whew! Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 15:46:22 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01C5481B.99786BD0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C5481B.99786BD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Finn, Quite obviously you haven't been following the thread, Ed has exhausted = most possible problems. Other Issues! The STATIONARY gears are hardened in the later models, can't remember = the year that started, I believe 1989 ? They give little problem unless = damaged and I believe their only damaged when abused. Normal use don't appreciably wear the e-shaft or bearings - but it = doesn't hurt to check them per the manual. Anything 'Out of tolerance' replace them - same as the rotor slots. If they give the tolerance and it's exceeded, it's gunna fail IMHO. George ( down under) You all have to remember that Ed has a knack for finding and exploring = all possible failure modes - known, unknown, and yes, even the = impossible :) Something that no one has memtioned is the gears (end = housings/rotors). Also rotor bearings/e-shaft clearance. What's the consequences of out-of tolerances here? I just can't see that a bit of wobble of the apex seals in their = grooves could cause a seal to break. Also, how could you have such excellent compression with worn = seals/grooves? Sounds more like a fluke or foreign object to me. Any chance that some = carbon build-up near exhaust ports could break loose and get jammed = between seal and edge of exhaust port? Any telltale on the rotor housing as to where the seal broke? Did you *thoroughly* inspect the four sparkplugs? Any piece of metal = or porcelain missing at all? Finn Ed Anderson wrote: Well, George, I would not take the conclusion that far. We have = folks flying with several hundred more hours than I have with no apex = seal failures. In fact to the best of my knowledge, I am the only one I = am aware of other than Chuck Dunlap who's rotary engine swallowed a 1/4" = dia steel bolt (it was retained - so we know) to have an apex seal = failure in an aircraft. However, I do believe that folks need to be = more aware of the true condition of their used engine components - I = know all probably did was look at it and not seeing any obviously = defects or dings said - "good to go!" As you know, Leon is convinced my apex seal failure was also due to = foreign object ingestion - I certainly can not prove it was something = else (like the apex seal slop) although I don't believe a foreign = object to be the case - belief is not a fact {:>).=20 Ed ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C5481B.99786BD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Finn,
Quite obviously you haven't been = following the=20 thread, Ed has exhausted most possible problems.
 
Other Issues!
 
The STATIONARY gears are hardened in = the later=20 models, can't remember the year that started, I believe 1989 ? They give = little=20 problem unless damaged and I believe their only damaged when=20 abused.
Normal use don't appreciably wear the = e-shaft or=20 bearings - but it doesn't hurt to check them per the = manual.
 
Anything 'Out of tolerance' replace = them - same as=20 the rotor slots.
If they give the tolerance and it's = exceeded, it's=20 gunna fail IMHO.
George ( down under)
 
You=20 all have to remember that Ed has a knack for finding and exploring all = possible failure modes - known,  unknown, and yes, even the = impossible=20 :)

Something that no one has memtioned is the gears (end=20 housings/rotors).
Also rotor bearings/e-shaft clearance.
What's = the=20 consequences of out-of tolerances here?
I just can't see that a bit = of=20 wobble of the apex seals in their grooves could cause a seal to=20 break.
Also, how could you have such excellent compression with = worn=20 seals/grooves?
Sounds more like a fluke or foreign object to me. = Any chance=20 that some carbon build-up near exhaust ports could break loose and get = jammed=20 between seal and edge of exhaust port?
Any telltale on the rotor = housing as=20 to where the seal broke?
Did you *thoroughly* inspect the four = sparkplugs?=20 Any piece of metal or porcelain missing at all?

Finn

Ed = Anderson=20 wrote:
Well, George, I would not =  take the=20 conclusion that far.  We have folks flying with several hundred = more=20 hours than I have with no apex seal failures.  In fact to the = best of=20 my knowledge, I am the only one I am aware of other than Chuck = Dunlap who's=20 rotary engine swallowed a 1/4" dia steel bolt (it was retained - so = we know)=20 to have an apex seal failure in an aircraft.  However, I do = believe=20 that folks need to be more aware of the true condition of their used = engine=20 components - I know all probably did was look at it and not seeing = any=20 obviously defects or dings said - "good to go!"
 
As you know, Leon is = convinced my=20 apex seal failure was also due to foreign object ingestion - I = certainly can=20 not prove it was something else (like the apex seal slop)  = although I don't believe a foreign object  to be the case = - belief=20 is not a fact {:>). 
 
 
Ed
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