Return-Path: Received: from [129.116.87.170] (HELO MAIL01.austin.utexas.edu) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c3) with ESMTP id 817008 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 23 Mar 2005 09:26:01 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=129.116.87.170; envelope-from=mark.steitle@austin.utexas.edu X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C52FB4.21B0AEF7" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel injector size, and redrive losses Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 08:25:15 -0600 Message-ID: <87DBA06C9A5CB84B80439BA09D86E69EC080D0@MAIL01.austin.utexas.edu> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel injector size, and redrive losses Thread-Index: AcUvsjyxh11eSH+VQkGagdoujOIo1QAAH62g From: "Mark R Steitle" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C52FB4.21B0AEF7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jerry, I bought a set of eight 42# Ford injectors but in the end, wasn't able = to use them and went with the 550's.. I gave $320 for the set and would = let them go for my cost. I'll split the set if someone else wants the = other four. They have about 5 hours on them. If you're interested = contact me off line. =20 =20 Mark S. =20 mark.steitle&Austin.utexas.edu (replace & with @) ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of Jerry Hey Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 8:12 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel injector size, and redrive losses =20 Ken, after spending the day calculating injector sizes, I ended up = coming to the same conclusion that you did. The Ford 42 lb are perfect = for my application. P.L. recommended 50 lb injectors but for 225 hp they = are too much in my opinion. Unfortunately Ford Racing is out of stock. = Damn. Jerry=20 On Tuesday, March 22, 2005, at 06:06 PM, kenpowell@comcast.net wrote:=20 =20 Jerry, the Ford injectors are not directly compatible. Here are the = details: =20 ENGINE SIDE FUEL RAIL SIDE=20 Ford 0.55" 0.55 =20 Mazda 0.65 (with the FAT Mazda rubber ring)=20 0.435=20 Note that the electrical connector is the same (center spline = top/inside and center lower outside). So, the Ford injector will hook = up electrically but the fuel connectors must be different.=20 Ken Powell=20 Bryant, Arkansas=20 501-847-4721=20 =20 =20 -------------- Original message --------------=20 =20 > Ken, are the Ford injectors interchangeable with the stock Mazda=20 > injectors as far as size, plug and so on? If so, do you have a part=20 > number? BTW sorry but there is no way you can run a p port at 7500=20 > rpm and only get 225 hp. Can you accept 240? Jerry=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Tuesday, March 22, 2005, at 03:48 PM, kenpowell@comcast.net wrote: = >=20 >=20 > But this graph was for a carburated engine so it really=20 > proves nothing. Besides, the engine only needs to be as rich as we=20 > want to run - you can't hurt the engine by running lean (I know, if=20 > you run it into the trees on a 100 F. day that will HURT it!!!). I=20 > have not seen any graphs showing power improvement beyond 0.6 on a NA = > engine and with very little to be gained by going beyond .55. If=20 > anyone can educate me differently please do so (no kidding, I'm = trying=20 > to learn). I'm planning on using 42 lb Ford injectors for my P-Port=20 > motor, if this isn't enough I want to know (planning on 225 HP at = 7500=20 > RPM).=20 >=20 > Ken Powell=20 >=20 > Bryant, Arkansas=20 >=20 > 501-847-4721=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -------------- Original message --------------=20 >=20 >=20 > v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} = > w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape=20 > {behavior:url(#default#VML);} st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }=20 >=20 > Arial0000,0000,8080Rus=20 > ty,=20 >=20 >=20 > Arial0000,0000,8080Are=20 > you sure you=CCre allowing yourself enough margin on the top end by=20 > using .55 bsfc. This chart (snitched from the other list) indicates=20 > that .55 is about right up to around 7500, but at 8000 rpm bsfc will=20 > be up around .60. What does that do to your hp numbers?=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Arial0000,0000,8080=20 > smaller>=20 >=20 >=20 > Arial0000,0000,8080Mar=20 > k=20 > S.=20 >=20 >=20 > Arial0000,0000,8080=20 > smaller>=20 >=20 >=20 ><=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Arial0000,0000,8080=20 > smaller>=20 >=20 >=20 ><=20 >=20 >=20 Times New Roman=20 >=20 >=20 =20 >=20 > From:Rotary motors in=20 > aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf=20 > OfRussell Duffy=20 >=20 > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 2:25 PM=20 >=20 > To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 >=20 > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel injector size, and redrive=20 > losses=20 >=20 >=20 > Times New Roman=20 >=20 >=20 > Times New RomanRC Engineering's calcs show=20 > that you are good to 302 HP at 43 psi fuel pressure, .50 BSFC, and=20 > 100% duty cycle. Of course you can't run the injectors at 100%=20 > (except maybe briefly like a drag race, not applicable to aircraft).=20 > So at 80% duty cycle the 38 lb injectors should be good for 242 HP.=20 > Enjoy your idle!!! Your injectors are big enough unless you P-Port=20 > and turn at least 8000 RPM.=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ArialFFFF,0000,0000Hi=20 > Ken,=20 >=20 >=20 > Times New Roman=20 >=20 >=20 > ArialFFFF,0000,0000RC=20 > Engineering's calc shows the same as the fuel calculator that I=20 > posted the other day. Four 38 lb/hr injectors, at 80% duty cycle, .55 = > BSFC, should be good for about 220 HP at the flywheel. I imagine that = > will be enough for the current engine, but not by a wide margin. I=20 > plan to run this engine as high as 8000 if I can, though I'll be=20 > amazed if I can get beyond 7500. Don't need no stinkin' P-Port for=20 > these rpms :-)=20 >=20 >=20 > Times New Roman=20 >=20 >=20 > ArialFFFF,0000,0000On=20 > the fuel spreadsheet that I posted (stolen) the other day, it gives a = > HP figure for the flywheel, and rear wheels. The estimate for=20 > the power loss due to a manual trans and diff is 15% on this=20 > spreadsheet. Anyone know what this amounts to for our redrive, and=20 > prop?=20 >=20 >=20 > Times New Roman=20 >=20 >=20 > ArialFFFF,0000,0000Cheers,=20 > or>=20 >=20 >=20 > ArialFFFF,0000,0000Rusty=20 > (hoping Ed out types me)=20 >=20 >=20 > Times New Roman=20 >=20 >=20 > ArialFFFF,0000,0000=20 > fontfamily>=20 >=20 >=20 > <=20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C52FB4.21B0AEF7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Jerry,

I bought a set of eight 42# Ford = injectors but in the end, wasn’t able to use them and went with the = 550’s..=A0 I gave $320 for the set and would let them go for my cost. =A0I’ll = split the set if someone else wants the other four. =A0They have about 5 hours on = them.=A0 If you’re interested contact me off line.=A0 =

 

Mark S. = =A0=A0

mark.steitle&Austin.utexas.edu (replace &=A0 with @)

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Jerry Hey
Sent: Wednesday, March = 23, 2005 8:12 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = fuel injector size, and redrive losses

 

Ken, after spending the day calculating injector sizes, I ended = up coming to the same conclusion that you did. The Ford 42 lb are perfect = for my application. P.L. recommended 50 lb injectors but for 225 hp they are = too much in my opinion. Unfortunately Ford Racing is out of stock. Damn. Jerry =



On Tuesday, March 22, 2005, at 06:06 PM, kenpowell@comcast.net = wrote:

 

Jerry, the Ford injectors are not directly compatible.  = Here are the details: 

           = ; ENGINE SIDE     FUEL RAIL SIDE =

Ford          0.55"          &nb= sp;          0.55     

Mazda       0.65 (with the FAT = Mazda rubber ring)

           = ;            =             &= nbsp;           0.435

Note that the electrical connector is the same (center spline top/inside and center lower outside).  So, the Ford injector will = hook up electrically but the fuel connectors must be different. =

Ken Powell

Bryant, Arkansas

501-847-4721

 

 

-------------- Original message -------------- =

 

> Ken, are the Ford injectors interchangeable with the stock = Mazda

> injectors as far as size, plug and so on? If so, do you = have a part

> number? BTW sorry but there is no way you can run a p port = at 7500

> rpm and only get 225 hp. Can you accept 240? Jerry =

>

>

>

>

>

> On Tuesday, March 22, 2005, at 03:48 PM, = kenpowell@comcast.net wrote:

>

>

> But this graph was for a carburated engine so it really =

> proves nothing. Besides, the engine only needs to be as = rich as we

> want to run - you can't hurt the engine by running lean (I = know, if

> you run it into the trees on a 100 F. day that will HURT = it!!!). I

> have not seen any graphs showing power improvement beyond = 0.6 on a NA

> engine and with very little to be gained by going beyond = .55. If

> anyone can educate me differently please do so (no kidding, = I'm trying

> to learn). I'm planning on using 42 lb Ford injectors for = my P-Port

> motor, if this isn't enough I want to know (planning on 225 = HP at 7500

> RPM).

>

> Ken Powell

>

> Bryant, Arkansas =

>

> 501-847-4721

>

>

>

>

> -------------- Original message -------------- =

>

>

> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}

> w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape =

> {behavior:url(#default#VML);} = st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }

>

> Arial0000,0000,8080Rus

> ty,

>

>

> Arial0000,0000,8080Are

> you sure you=CCre allowing yourself enough margin on the = top end by

> using .55 bsfc. This chart (snitched from the other list) indicates

> that .55 is about right up to around 7500, but at 8000 rpm = bsfc will

> be up around .60. What does that do to your hp numbers? =

>

>

>

> Arial0000,0000,8080

> smaller>

>

>

> Arial0000,0000,8080Mar

> k

> S.

>

>

> Arial0000,0000,8080

> smaller>

>

>

><

>

>

>

> Arial0000,0000,8080

> smaller>

>

>

><

>

>

Times New Roman

>

>

 

>

> From:Rotary motors in

> aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf =

> OfRussell Duffy

>

> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 2:25 PM =

>

> To: Rotary motors in = aircraft

>

> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel injector size, and redrive =

> losses

>

>

> Times New Roman

>

>

> Times New RomanRC Engineering's calcs show =

> that you are good to 302 HP at 43 psi fuel pressure, .50 = BSFC, and

> 100% duty cycle. Of course you can't run the injectors at = 100%

> (except maybe briefly like a drag race, not applicable to aircraft).

> So at 80% duty cycle the 38 lb injectors should be good for = 242 HP.

> Enjoy your idle!!! Your injectors are big enough unless you = P-Port

> and turn at least 8000 RPM.

>

>

>

> ArialFFFF,0000,0000Hi

> Ken,

>

>

> Times New Roman

>

>

> ArialFFFF,0000,0000RC

> Engineering's calc shows the same as the fuel calculator = that I

> posted the other day. Four 38 lb/hr injectors, at 80% duty = cycle, .55

> BSFC, should be good for about 220 HP at the flywheel. I = imagine that

> will be enough for the current engine, but not by a wide = margin. I

> plan to run this engine as high as 8000 if I can, though = I'll be

> amazed if I can get beyond 7500. Don't need no stinkin' = P-Port for

> these rpms :-)

>

>

> Times New Roman

>

>

> ArialFFFF,0000,0000On

> the fuel spreadsheet that I posted (stolen) the other day, = it gives a

> HP figure for the flywheel, and rear wheels. The estimate = for

> the power loss due to a manual trans and diff is 15% on = this

> spreadsheet. Anyone know what this amounts to for our = redrive, and

> prop?

>

>

> Times New Roman

>

>

> ArialFFFF,0000,0000Cheers,

> or>

>

>

> ArialFFFF,0000,0000Rusty

> (hoping Ed out types me)

>

>

> Times New Roman

>

>

> ArialFFFF,0000,0000

> fontfamily>

>

>

> <

 

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