Received-SPF: none
 receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.148.227.85; envelope-from=rlwhite@comcast.net
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 18:15:44 -0700
From: Bob White <rlwhite@comcast.net>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel injector size, and redrive losses
Message-Id: <20050322181544.41fb1c80.rlwhite@comcast.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-816438@logan.com>
References: <list-816438@logan.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Nah, I didn't find it.  Somebody else sent that to the list a while back an=
d I
just copied it. :)

Bob W.


On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 00:38:49 +0000
kenpowell@comcast.net wrote:

> Looks like Bob identified the best deal.  These are probably what everyon=
e should be running - can you say NEW!
>=20
> Ken Powell=20
> Bryant, Arkansas=20
> 501-847-4721
>=20
> -------------- Original message --------------=20
>=20
> > Hi Jerry,=20
> >=20
> > Try here:=20
> > http://www.buyfordracing.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=3D360=20
> >=20
> > $259 for a set of 8. If you only want 4, I might be interested in the o=
ther=20
> > 4. Write me off list.=20
> >=20
> > I used to have this on the Wiki, but everything since March 8 has magic=
ally=20
> > dissapeared.=20
> >=20
> > Bob W. (More frequent backups on the agenda.)=20
> >=20
> > On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 18:29:39 -0500=20
> > Jerry Hey wrote:=20
> >=20
> > > Thanks Ken, since I am building the fuel rail and injecting into the=
=20
> > > bell mouths the Ford's can be easily installed. Glad to hear the=20
> > > electrical hook up is the same. If I just say "Ford 42 lb injectors,"=
=20
> > > are they properly identified? I'm tired of planning. This week end=20
> > > I will start to actually build the intake. Jerry=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > > On Tuesday, March 22, 2005, at 06:06 PM, kenpowell@comcast.net wrote:=
=20
> > >=20
> > > > Jerry, the Ford injectors are not directly compatible. Here are the=
=20
> > > > details:=20
> > > > ENGINE SIDE FUEL RAIL SIDE=20
> > > > Ford 0.55" 0.55=20
> > > > Mazda 0.65 (with the FAT Mazda rubber ring)=20
> > > > 0.435=20
> > > > Note that the electrical connector is the same (center spline=20
> > > > top/inside and center lower outside). So, the Ford injector will ho=
ok=20
> > > > up electrically but the fuel connectors must be different.=20
> > > > Ken Powell=20
> > > > Bryant, Arkansas=20
> > > > 501-847-4721=20
> > > >=20
> > > >=20
> > > > -------------- Original message --------------=20
> > > >=20
> > > > > Ken, are the Ford injectors interchangeable with the stock Mazda=
=20
> > > > > injectors as far as size, plug and so on? If so, do you have a pa=
rt=20
> > > > > number? BTW sorry but there is no way you can run a p port at 750=
0=20
> > > > > rpm and only get 225 hp. Can you accept 240? Jerry=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > On Tuesday, March 22, 2005, at 03:48 PM, kenpowell@comcast.net wr=
ote:=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > But this graph was for a carburated engine so it really=20
> > > > > proves nothing. Besides, the engine only needs to be as rich as w=
e=20
> > > > > want to run - you can't hurt the engine by running lean (I know, =
if=20
> > > > > you run it into the trees on a 100 F. day that will HURT it!!!). =
I=20
> > > > > have not seen any graphs showing power improvement beyond 0.6 on =
a NA=20
> > > > > engine and with very little to be gained by going beyond .55. If=
=20
> > > > > anyone can educate me differently please do so (no kidding, I'm=20
> > > > trying=20
> > > > > to learn). I'm planning on using 42 lb Ford injectors for my P-Po=
rt=20
> > > > > motor, if this isn't enough I want to know (planning on 225 HP at=
=20
> > > > 7500=20
> > > > > RPM).=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > Ken Powell=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > Bryant, Arkansas=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > 501-847-4721=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > -------------- Original message --------------=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VM=
L);}=20
> > > > > w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape=20
> > > > > {behavior:url(#default#VML);} st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui=
) }=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > Arial0000,0000,8080Rus=20
> > > > > ty,=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > Arial0000,0000,8080Are=20
> > > > > you sure you=CCre allowing yourself enough margin on the top end =
by=20
> > > > > using .55 bsfc. This chart (snitched from the other list) indicat=
es=20
> > > > > that .55 is about right up to around 7500, but at 8000 rpm bsfc w=
ill=20
> > > > > be up around .60. What does that do to your hp numbers?=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > Arial0000,0000,8080=20
> > > > > smaller>=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > Arial0000,0000,8080Mar=20
> > > > > k=20
> > > > > S.=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > Arial0000,0000,8080=20
> > > > > smaller>=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > ><=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > Arial0000,0000,8080=20
> > > > > smaller>=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > ><=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > Times New Roman=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > From:Rotary motors in=20
> > > > > aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf=20
> > > > > OfRussell Duffy=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 2:25 PM=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel injector size, and redrive=20
> > > > > losses=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > Times New Roman=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > Times New RomanRC Engineering's calcs show=20
> > > > > that you are good to 302 HP at 43 psi fuel pressure, .50 BSFC, an=
d=20
> > > > > 100% duty cycle. Of course you can't run the injectors at 100%=20
> > > > > (except maybe briefly like a drag race, not applicable to aircraf=
t).=20
> > > > > So at 80% duty cycle the 38 lb injectors should be good for 242 H=
P.=20
> > > > > Enjoy your idle!!! Your injectors are big enough unless you P-Por=
t=20
> > > > > and turn at least 8000 RPM.=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > ArialFFFF,0000,0000Hi=20
> > > > > Ken,=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > Times New Roman=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > ArialFFFF,0000,0000RC=20
> > > > > Engineering's calc shows the same as the fuel calculator that I=20
> > > > > posted the other day. Four 38 lb/hr injectors, at 80% duty cycle,=
 .55=20
> > > > > BSFC, should be good for about 220 HP at the flywheel. I imagine =
that=20
> > > > > will be enough for the current engine, but not by a wide margin. =
I=20
> > > > > plan to run this engine as high as 8000 if I can, though I'll be=
=20
> > > > > amazed if I can get beyond 7500. Don't need no stinkin' P-Port fo=
r=20
> > > > > these rpms :-)=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > Times New Roman=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > ArialFFFF,0000,0000On=20
> > > > > the fuel spreadsheet that I posted (stolen) the other day, it giv=
es a=20
> > > > > HP figure for the flywheel, and rear wheels. The estimate for=20
> > > > > the power loss due to a manual trans and diff is 15% on this=20
> > > > > spreadsheet. Anyone know what this amounts to for our redrive, an=
d=20
> > > > > prop?=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > Times New Roman=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > ArialFFFF,0000,0000Cheers,=20
> > > > > or>=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > ArialFFFF,0000,0000Rusty=20
> > > > > (hoping Ed out types me)=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > Times New Roman=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > ArialFFFF,0000,0000=20
> > > > > fontfamily>=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > <=20
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > --=20
> > http://www.bob-white.com=20
> > N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 (real soon)=20
> >=20
> > >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20
> > >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20


--=20
http://www.bob-white.com
N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 (real soon)