Return-Path: Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net ([204.127.202.56] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c3) with ESMTP id 816315 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 18:07:40 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.127.202.56; envelope-from=kenpowell@comcast.net Received: from 204.127.205.142 (unknown[204.127.205.159](misconfigured sender)) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2005032223065501200e6keoe>; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 23:06:55 +0000 Received: from [166.102.160.133] by 204.127.205.142; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 23:06:54 +0000 From: kenpowell@comcast.net To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel injector size, and redrive losses Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 23:06:54 +0000 Message-Id: <032220052306.8155.4240A50C000C62E300001FDB220700320104040A99019F020A05@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: a2VucG93ZWxsQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_8155_1111532814_0" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_8155_1111532814_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jerry, the Ford injectors are not directly compatible. Here are the details: ENGINE SIDE FUEL RAIL SIDE Ford 0.55" 0.55 Mazda 0.65 (with the FAT Mazda rubber ring) 0.435 Note that the electrical connector is the same (center spline top/inside and center lower outside). So, the Ford injector will hook up electrically but the fuel connectors must be different. Ken Powell Bryant, Arkansas 501-847-4721 -------------- Original message -------------- > Ken, are the Ford injectors interchangeable with the stock Mazda > injectors as far as size, plug and so on? If so, do you have a part > number? BTW sorry but there is no way you can run a p port at 7500 > rpm and only get 225 hp. Can you accept 240? Jerry > > > > > > On Tuesday, March 22, 2005, at 03:48 PM, kenpowell@comcast.net wrote: > > > But this graph was for a carburated engine so it really > proves nothing. Besides, the engine only needs to be as rich as we > want to run - you can't hurt the engine by running lean (I know, if > you run it into the trees on a 100 F. day that will HURT it!!!). I > have not seen any graphs showing power improvement beyond 0.6 on a NA > engine and with very little to be gained by going beyond .55. If > anyone can educate me differently please do so (no kidding, I'm trying > to learn). I'm planning on using 42 lb Ford injectors for my P-Port > motor, if this isn't enough I want to know (planning on 225 HP at 7500 > RPM). > > Ken Powell > > Bryant, Arkansas > > 501-847-4721 > > > > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > > v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} > w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape > {behavior:url(#default#VML);} st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } > > Arial0000,0000,8080Rus > ty, > > > Arial0000,0000,8080Are > you sure youíre allowing yourself enough margin on the top end by > using .55 bsfc. This chart (snitched from the other list) indicates > that .55 is about right up to around 7500, but at 8000 rpm bsfc will > be up around .60. What does that do to your hp numbers? > > > > Arial0000,0000,8080 > smaller> > > > Arial0000,0000,8080Mar > k > S. > > > Arial0000,0000,8080 > smaller> > > > < > > > > Arial0000,0000,8080 > smaller> > > > < > > Times New Roman > > > > From:Rotary motors in > aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf > OfRussell Duffy > > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 2:25 PM > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel injector size, and redrive > losses > > > Times New Roman > > > Times New RomanRC Engineering's calcs show > that you are good to 302 HP at 43 psi fuel pressure, .50 BSFC, and > 100% duty cycle. Of course you can't run the injectors at 100% > (except maybe briefly like a drag race, not applicable to aircraft). > So at 80% duty cycle the 38 lb injectors should be good for 242 HP. > Enjoy your idle!!! Your injectors are big enough unless you P-Port > and turn at least 8000 RPM. > > > > ArialFFFF,0000,0000Hi > Ken, > > > Times New Roman > > > ArialFFFF,0000,0000RC > Engineering's calc shows the same as the fuel calculator that I > posted the other day. Four 38 lb/hr injectors, at 80% duty cycle, .55 > BSFC, should be good for about 220 HP at the flywheel. I imagine that > will be enough for the current engine, but not by a wide margin. I > plan to run this engine as high as 8000 if I can, though I'll be > amazed if I can get beyond 7500. Don't need no stinkin' P-Port for > these rpms :-) > > > Times New Roman > > > ArialFFFF,0000,0000On > the fuel spreadsheet that I posted (stolen) the other day, it gives a > HP figure for the flywheel, and rear wheels. The estimate for > the power loss due to a manual trans and diff is 15% on this > spreadsheet. Anyone know what this amounts to for our redrive, and > prop? > > > Times New Roman > > > ArialFFFF,0000,0000Cheers,> or> > > > ArialFFFF,0000,0000Rusty > (hoping Ed out types me) > > > Times New Roman > > > ArialFFFF,0000,0000 > fontfamily> > > > < --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_8155_1111532814_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Jerry, the Ford injectors are not directly compatible.  Here are the details: 
            ENGINE SIDE     FUEL RAIL SIDE
Ford          0.55"                     0.55     
Mazda       0.65 (with the FAT Mazda rubber ring)
                                               0.435
Note that the electrical connector is the same (center spline top/inside and center lower outside).  So, the Ford injector will hook up electrically but the fuel connectors must be different.
Ken Powell
Bryant, Arkansas
501-847-4721
 
-------------- Original message --------------

> Ken, are the Ford injectors interchangeable with the stock Mazda
> injectors as far as size, plug and so on? If so, do you have a part
> number? BTW sorry but there is no way you can run a p port at 7500
> rpm and only get 225 hp. Can you accept 240? Jerry
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, March 22, 2005, at 03:48 PM, kenpowell@comcast.net wrote:
>
>
> But this graph was for a carburated engine so it really
> proves nothing. Besides, the engine only needs to be as rich as we
> want to run - you can't hurt the engine by running lean (I know, if
> you run it into the trees on a 100 F. day that will HURT it!!!). I
> have not seen any graphs showing power improvement beyond 0.6 on a NA
> engine and with very little to be gained by going beyond .55. If
> anyone can educate me differently please do so (no kidding, I'm trying
> to learn). I'm planning on using 42 lb Ford injectors for my P-Port
> motor, if this isn't enough I want to know (planning on 225 HP at 7500
> RPM).
>
> Ken Powell
>
> Bryant, Arkansas
>
> 501-847-4721
>
>
>
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
>
> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
> w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape
> {behavior:url(#default#VML);} st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
>
> Arial0000,0000,8080Rus
> ty,
>
>
> Arial0000,0000,8080Are
> you sure youíre allowing yourself enough margin on the top end by
> using .55 bsfc. This chart (snitched from the other list) indicates
> that .55 is about right up to around 7500, but at 8000 rpm bsfc will
> be up around .60. What does that do to your hp numbers?
>
>
>
> Arial0000,0000,8080 > smaller>
>
>
> Arial0000,0000,8080Mar
> k
> S.
>
>
> Arial0000,0000,8080 > smaller>
>
>
> <
>
>
>
> Arial0000,0000,8080 > smaller>
>
>
> <
>
>
Times New Roman
>
>

>
> From:Rotary motors in
> aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf
> OfRussell Duffy
>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 2:25 PM
>
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
>
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel injector size, and redrive
> losses
>
>
> Times New Roman
>
>
> Times New RomanRC Engineering's calcs show
> that you are good to 302 HP at 43 psi fuel pressure, .50 BSFC, and
> 100% duty cycle. Of course you can't run the injectors at 100%
> (except maybe briefly like a drag race, not applicable to aircraft).
> So at 80% duty cycle the 38 lb injectors should be good for 242 HP.
> Enjoy your idle!!! Your injectors are big enough unless you P-Port
> and turn at least 8000 RPM.
>
>
>
> ArialFFFF,0000,0000Hi
> Ken,
>
>
> Times New Roman
>
>
> ArialFFFF,0000,0000RC
> Engineering's calc shows the same as the fuel calculator that I
> posted the other day. Four 38 lb/hr injectors, at 80% duty cycle, .55
> BSFC, should be good for about 220 HP at the flywheel. I imagine that
> will be enough for the current engine, but not by a wide margin. I
> plan to run this engine as high as 8000 if I can, though I'll be
> amazed if I can get beyond 7500. Don't need no stinkin' P-Port for
> these rpms :-)
>
>
> Times New Roman
>
>
> ArialFFFF,0000,0000On
> the fuel spreadsheet that I posted (stolen) the other day, it gives a
> HP figure for the flywheel, and rear wheels. The estimate for
> the power loss due to a manual trans and diff is 15% on this
> spreadsheet. Anyone know what this amounts to for our redrive, and
> prop?
>
>
> Times New Roman
>
>
> ArialFFFF,0000,0000Cheers,> or>
>
>
> ArialFFFF,0000,0000Rusty
> (hoping Ed out types me)
>
>
> Times New Roman
>
>
> ArialFFFF,0000,0000 > fontfamily>
>
>
> <
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