Return-Path: Received: from smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net ([209.86.89.69] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c3) with ESMTP id 816151 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:05:04 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.86.89.69; envelope-from=jerryhey@earthlink.net Received: from [65.176.168.20] (helo=earthlink.net) by smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DDqXx-0007MU-Vf for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:04:19 -0500 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=simple; s=test1; d=earthlink.net; h=Date:Subject:Content-Type:Mime-Version:From:To:In-Reply-To:Message-Id:X-Mailer; b=ZM6+YSKvnVvUgqUY9CNZv73/lDq5ihrmMRtXWfo4qcBIBlaXBldnvGIasKDQShq9; Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:05:36 -0500 Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel injector size, and redrive losses Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-6-74350412 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Jerry Hey To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <23236EB3-9B16-11D9-B27D-0003931B0C7A@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-ELNK-Trace: 8104856d7830ec6b1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec796c023180c9a3f1bae5d6efeebbbb8a18350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 65.176.168.20 --Apple-Mail-6-74350412 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Ken, are the Ford injectors interchangeable with the stock Mazda=20 injectors as far as size, plug and so on? If so, do you have a part=20 number? BTW sorry but there is no way you can run a p port at 7500 rpm=20= and only get 225 hp. Can you accept 240? Jerry On Tuesday, March 22, 2005, at 03:48 PM, kenpowell@comcast.net wrote: > But this graph was for a carburated engine so it really proves=20 > nothing.=A0 Besides,=A0the engine=A0only needs to be as rich as we = want to=20 > run - you can't hurt=A0the engine=A0by=A0running lean (I know, if you = run it=20 > into the trees on a 100 F. day that will HURT it!!!).=A0 I have not = seen=20 > any graphs showing power improvement beyond 0.6 on a NA engine and=20 > with very little to be gained by going beyond .55.=A0 If anyone can=20 > educate me differently please do so (no kidding, I'm trying to=20 > learn).=A0 I'm planning on using 42 lb Ford injectors for my P-Port=20 > motor, if this isn't enough I want to know (planning on 225 HP at 7500=20= > RPM). > Ken Powell > Bryant, Arkansas > 501-847-4721 > =A0 > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}=20= > w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape=20 > {behavior:url(#default#VML);} st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } > Rusty, > > Are you sure you=EDre allowing yourself enough margin on the top end = by=20 > using .55 bsfc.=A0 This chart (snitched from the other list) indicates=20= > that .55 is about right up to around 7500, but at 8000 rpm bsfc will=20= > be up around .60.=A0 What does that do to your hp numbers?=A0 > > =A0 > > Mark S. > > =A0 > > > =A0 > > > > From:Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20= > Behalf OfRussell Duffy > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 2:25 PM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel injector size, and redrive losses > > =A0 > > RC Engineering's calcs show that you are good to 302 HP at 43 psi fuel=20= > pressure, .50 BSFC, and 100% duty cycle.=A0 Of course you can't run = the=20 > injectors at 100% (except maybe briefly like a drag race, not=20 > applicable to aircraft).=A0 So at 80% duty cycle the 38 lb injectors=20= > should be good for 242 HP.=A0 Enjoy your idle!!!=A0 Your injectors are = big=20 > enough unless you P-Port and turn at least 8000 RPM. > > > Hi Ken, > > =A0 > > RC Engineering's calc shows the same as the fuel calculator that=A0I=20= > posted=A0the other day.=A0 Four 38 lb/hr injectors, at 80% duty cycle, = .55=20 > BSFC, should be good for=A0about 220 HP at the flywheel.=A0=A0I = imagine that=20 > will be enough for the current engine, but=A0not by a=A0wide margin.=A0 = I=20 > plan to run this engine as high as 8000 if I can, though I'll be=20 > amazed if I can get beyond 7500.=A0 Don't need no stinkin' P-Port for=20= > these rpms :-) > > =A0 > > On the fuel spreadsheet that I posted (stolen)=A0the other day, it = gives=20 > a HP figure for the flywheel, and rear wheels.=A0 The estimate for=20 > the=A0power loss due to a manual trans=A0and diff is 15% on this=20 > spreadsheet.=A0=A0Anyone know what this amounts to=A0for our redrive, = and=20 > prop?=A0=A0 > > =A0 > > Cheers, > > Rusty (hoping Ed out types me) > > =A0 > > =A0=A0=A0 > > = --Apple-Mail-6-74350412 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1 Ken, are the Ford injectors interchangeable with the stock Mazda injectors as far as size, plug and so on? If so, do you have a part number? BTW sorry but there is no way you can run a p port at 7500 rpm and only get 225 hp. Can you accept 240? Jerry =20 On Tuesday, March 22, 2005, at 03:48 PM, kenpowell@comcast.net wrote: But this graph was for a carburated engine so it really proves nothing.=A0 Besides,=A0the engine=A0only needs to be as rich as = we want to run - you can't hurt=A0the engine=A0by=A0running lean (I know, = if you run it into the trees on a 100 F. day that will HURT it!!!).=A0 I have not seen any graphs showing power improvement beyond 0.6 on a NA engine and with very little to be gained by going beyond .55.=A0 If anyone can educate me differently please do so (no kidding, I'm trying to learn).=A0 I'm planning on using 42 lb Ford injectors for my P-Port motor, if this isn't enough I want to know (planning on 225 HP at 7500 RPM). Ken Powell Bryant, Arkansas 501-847-4721 =A0 -------------- Original message -------------- v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }=20 = Arial0000,0000,8080Rusty, = Arial0000,0000,8080Are you sure you=EDre allowing yourself enough margin on the top end by using .55 bsfc.=A0 This chart (snitched from the other list) indicates that .55 is about right up to around 7500, but at 8000 rpm bsfc will be up around .60.=A0 What does that do to your hp numbers?=A0 = = Arial0000,0000,8080=A0 = Arial0000,0000,8080Mark S. = Arial0000,0000,8080=A0 < = Arial0000,0000,8080=A0 <
Times New Roman
From:Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf OfRussell Duffy Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 2:25 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel injector size, and redrive losses Times New Roman=A0 Times New RomanRC Engineering's calcs show that you are good to 302 HP at 43 psi fuel pressure, .50 BSFC, and 100% duty cycle.=A0 Of course you can't run the injectors at 100% (except maybe briefly like a drag race, not applicable to aircraft).=A0 So at 80% duty cycle the 38 lb injectors should be good for 242 HP.=A0 Enjoy your idle!!!=A0 Your injectors are big enough unless you P-Port and turn at least 8000 RPM. ArialFFFF,0000,0000Hi Ken, Times New Roman=A0 ArialFFFF,0000,0000RC Engineering's calc shows the same as the fuel calculator that=A0I posted=A0the other day.=A0 Four 38 lb/hr injectors, at 80% duty cycle, = .55 BSFC, should be good for=A0about 220 HP at the flywheel.=A0=A0I imagine = that will be enough for the current engine, but=A0not by a=A0wide margin.=A0 = I plan to run this engine as high as 8000 if I can, though I'll be amazed if I can get beyond 7500.=A0 Don't need no stinkin' P-Port for these rpms :-) Times New Roman=A0 ArialFFFF,0000,0000On the fuel spreadsheet that I posted (stolen)=A0the other day, it gives a HP figure for the flywheel, and rear wheels.=A0 The estimate for the=A0power loss due to a manual trans=A0and diff is 15% on this spreadsheet.=A0=A0Anyone know what this amounts to=A0for our redrive, = and prop?=A0=A0 Times New Roman=A0 = ArialFFFF,0000,0000Cheers= , = ArialFFFF,0000,0000Rusty (hoping Ed out types me) Times New Roman=A0 = ArialFFFF,0000,0000=A0=A0= =A0 <= --Apple-Mail-6-74350412--