Return-Path: Received: from mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.131.116] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c3) with ESMTP id 812229 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 20 Mar 2005 07:59:53 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.127.131.116; envelope-from=keltro@att.net Received: from 204.127.135.76 ([204.127.135.76]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12) with SMTP id <2005032012590511200ep5ome>; Sun, 20 Mar 2005 12:59:05 +0000 Received: from [209.247.222.107] by 204.127.135.76; Sun, 20 Mar 2005 12:59:04 +0000 From: keltro@att.net (Kelly Troyer) To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: Alternators Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 12:59:04 +0000 Message-Id: <032020051259.14232.423D7397000C5131000037982161243646019D9B040A05@att.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Feb 14 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: a2VsdHJvQGF0dC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14232_1111323544_0" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14232_1111323544_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Good idea Charlie......Let us hear what Bob Nuckolls has to say !! -- Kelly Troyer Dyke Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2 -------------- Original message from Charlie England : -------------- > Marv, I hope this doesn't step on too many toes, but here goes: > > Well, he did identify himself as having a financial stake in his > statements. > > Some of that stuff is probably true for *some* a/c alternators. Some of > it is not universally true; some may not be true, period. Some alts have > canted brushes, some have perpendicular brushes. Fan orientation will > affect airflow to some degree, but thousands of auto alts. are being run > successfully in a/c with no fan at all, using blast tubes. The ones with > fans still attached still move air when spun the other way. Some car > engines spin the alt in the same direction as a/c engines. Some a/c alts > might have locking tabs, but not all. According to auto docs, some auto > alts are wound delta & some are wound Y. He mentions that alts are > birotational then later says that a/c alts are wound backward for > backward rotation. He says that the rotor shaft is shorter but the cases > are identical. While he's probably correct about special insulations, > coatings, etc for turbo'd & turbine hardware designed for extreme > altitudes, I strongly doubt that much if any of that applies for stuff > found on NA piston singles. It doesn't seem to apply for some electric > gear retract pumps, which are straight out of marine outdrive tilt > mechanisms. I've witnessed certified a/c alternators work just fine > after being rebuilt in greasy floored auto electric shops with auto > components. Not on my airplane of course... If anyone needs something > overhauled, bring it with you to the rotary spring fling thing & we'll > run it 9 miles down the road to the uncertified repair station. > > If there's interest, I'll post the article on the aeroelectric list & > let Bob Nuckolls critique it. > > Charlie > (feeling irritable after a day of figuring out how much it has cost me > this past year to have my money spent where & in ways I don't want it > spent) > > Kelly Troyer wrote: > > > I do not know about everyone elses engines but my 13B turns the same > > direction as A/C engines built in the US !! I do not know enough to > > comment about the other differences noted....... > > -- > > Kelly Troyer > > Dyke Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2 > > > > > > > > > > -------------- Original message from "Marvin Kaye" > > : -------------- > > > > > > > I thought you'd find this interesting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Posted by "Hamid A. Wasti" to the Lancair Mail List: > > > > > > I saw this posted on another list. I am passing it along for > > general > > > interest, with no warranty for the accuracy of the information > > contained in > > > it. > > > > > > > > > From Pifer's Airmotive, Inc. Pontiac MI > > > > > > DIFFERENCES BETWEEN AIRCRAFT & AUTO ALTERNATORS USING A FORD > > BELT DRIVEN 12v > > > OR 24v ALTERNATOR FOR A COMPARISON > > > > > > 1. Although alternators are bi-rotational, aircraft engines turn > > opposite of > > > automotive. This means cooling fans must be canted in the > > opposite direction. > > > Also, pulley and belt size vary due to coming-in speed. > > > > > > 2. The thru bolts are of a higher tensile strength utilizing an > > > anti-rotation > > > device in the form of a lock tab. The rectifier assembly has a > > heavy duty > > > diode with higher voltage and amp. capacity. Also, one excites > > at 90 PIV (Peak > > > Inverse Voltage) and the other at 150 PIV. Radio suppression is > > designed for > > > 108 frequencies and up which is the VHF and 108 and down which > > is FM band. > > > > > > 3. The brushes have a higher graphite content and they utilize a > > tin plate > > > on > > > the brush leads to prevent corrosion. > > > > > > 4. The stator is of the Delta wind rather than the “Y" wind and > > it does not > > > utilize the stator terminal. The aircraft unit also carries “H" > > insulation > > > which is capable of 200 degrees centigrade temperatures. It also > > is rated at > > > 60 amp. instead of 55. > > > > > > > 5. The rotor has a shorter shaft and a smaller thread size. > > Because of the > > > opposite rotation it is wound in the opposite direction. It also > > uses "H” > > > insulation and Havel varnish. > > > > > > 6. The front and rear housings are the same as automotive. > > > > > > With this brief description, I hope I have enlightened you on the > > > differences > > > between aircraft and automotive alternators. Using automotive > > units in an > > > aircraft creates a potential safety hazard as well as a short > > alternator life > > > and unreliability. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > > >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > > > > >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14232_1111323544_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Good idea Charlie......Let us hear what Bob Nuckolls has to say !!
--
Kelly Troyer
Dyke Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2




-------------- Original message from Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>: --------------


> Marv, I hope this doesn't step on too many toes, but here goes:
>
> Well, he did identify himself as having a financial stake in his
> statements.
>
> Some of that stuff is probably true for *some* a/c alternators. Some of
> it is not universally true; some may not be true, period. Some alts have
> canted brushes, some have perpendicular brushes. Fan orientation will
> affect airflow to some degree, but thousands of auto alts. are being run
> successfully in a/c with no fan at all, using blast tubes. The ones with
> fans still attached still move air when spun the other way. Some car
> engines spin the alt in the same direction as a/c engines. Some a/c alts
> might have locking tabs, but not all. According to auto docs, some auto
> alts are wound delta & some are wound Y. He mentions that alts are
> birotational then later says that a/c alts are wound backward for
> backward rotation. He says that the rotor shaft is shorter but the cases
> are identical. While he's probably correct about special insulations,
> coatings, etc for turbo'd & turbine hardware designed for extreme
> altitudes, I strongly doubt that much if any of that applies for stuff
> found on NA piston singles. It doesn't seem to apply for some electric
> gear retract pumps, which are straight out of marine outdrive tilt
> mechanisms. I've witnessed certified a/c alternators work just fine
> after being rebuilt in greasy floored auto electric shops with auto
> components. Not on my airplane of course... If anyone needs something
> overhauled, bring it with you to the rotary spring fling thing & we'll
> run it 9 miles down the road to the uncertified repair station.
>
> If there's interest, I'll post the article on the aeroelectric list &
> let Bob Nuckolls critique it.
>
> Charlie
> (feeling irritable after a day of figuring out how much it has cost me
> this past year to have my money spent where & in ways I don't want it
> spent)
>
> Kelly Troyer wrote:
>
> > I do not know about everyone elses engines but my 13B turns the same
> > direction as A/C engines built in the US !! I do not know enough to
> > comment about the other differences noted.......
> > --
> > Kelly Troyer
> > Dyke Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------- Original message from "Marvin Kaye"
> > : --------------
> >
> >
> > > I thought you'd find this interesting.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Posted by "Hamid A. Wasti" to the Lancair Mail List:
> > >
> > > I saw this posted on another list. I am passing it along for
> > general
> > > interest, with no warranty for the accuracy of the information
> > contained in
> > > it.
> > >
> > >
> > > From Pifer's Airmotive, Inc. Pontiac MI
> > >
> > > DIFFERENCES BETWEEN AIRCRAFT & AUTO ALTERNATORS USING A FORD
> > BELT DRIVEN 12v
> > > OR 24v ALTERNATOR FOR A COMPARISON
> > >
> > > 1. Although alternators are bi-rotational, aircraft engines turn
> > opposite of
> > > automotive. This means cooling fans must be canted in the
> > opposite direction.
> > > Also, pulley and belt size vary due to coming-in speed.
> > >
> > > 2. The thru bolts are of a higher tensile strength utilizing an
> > > anti-rotation
> > > device in the form of a lock tab. The rectifier assembly has a
> > heavy duty
> > > diode with higher voltage and amp. capacity. Also, one excites
> > at 90 PIV (Peak
> > > Inverse Voltage) and the other at 150 PIV. Radio suppression is
> > designed for
> > > 108 frequencies and up which is the VHF and 108 and down which
> > is FM band.
> > >
> > > 3. The brushes have a higher graphite content and they utilize a
> > tin plate
> > > on
> > > the brush leads to prevent corrosion.
> > >
> > > 4. The stator is of the Delta wind rather than the “Y" wind and
> > it does not
> > > utilize the stator terminal. The aircraft unit also carries “H"
> > insulation
> > > which is capable of 200 degrees centigrade temperatures. It also
> > is rated at
> > > 60 amp. instead of 55.
> > >
>
> > > 5. The rotor has a shorter shaft and a smaller thread size.
> > Because of the
> > > opposite rotation it is wound in the opposite direction. It also
> > uses "H”
> > > insulation and Havel varnish.
> > >
> > > 6. The front and rear housings are the same as automotive.
> > >
> > > With this brief description, I hope I have enlightened you on the
> > > differences
> > > between aircraft and automotive alternators. Using automotive
> > units in an
> > > aircraft creates a potential safety hazard as well as a short
> > alternator life
> > > and unreliability.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
> > > >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html
> >
>
>
>
> >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
> >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html
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