Return-Path: Received: from [199.185.220.220] (HELO priv-edtnes56.telusplanet.net) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c2) with ESMTP id 760145 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 23:43:20 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=199.185.220.220; envelope-from=haywire@telus.net Received: from Endurance ([207.81.25.155]) by priv-edtnes56.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.6.01.04.00 201-2131-118-20041027) with SMTP id <20050226044230.YTGD5284.priv-edtnes56.telusplanet.net@Endurance> for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 21:42:30 -0700 From: "Todd Bartrim" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: EWP; was E-shaft permanent magnet alternator Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 20:42:23 -0800 Message-ID: <007801c51bbd$90e78cb0$0201a8c0@Endurance> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0079_01C51B7A.82C44CB0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0079_01C51B7A.82C44CB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message I went to the weather channels page, and looked up the monthly average temps for the following locations. What's shown is the temp for the hottest month in the summer. Good idea Prince George BC Canada- 71 Pensacola FL- 91 OK, so you're 20F hotter than me. Makes you a prime test subject. I am in the perfect position to test this though, since I have my EWP running in series with the mechanical pump. I have in fact tested this on the ground, by removing the single belt that runs the mechanical pump, and alternator. Even for a short flight, I'm uncomfortable with the thought of taking off with no alternator. During my break-in time, I plan to measure currents required, and also verify the length of time that the engine will run with no alternator. Perhaps I'll be willing to make a short flight based on those results. No promises though. My wife would not be as understanding about a 2nd dead stick landing. I was kinda hoping you'd remove the water pump altogether for testing, but I forgot that you are using the stock alternator mount that incorporates the WP. I really wouldn't suggest that you take-off without an alternator as this is not only an unnecessary risk, but also wouldn't provide any realistic test data. The pump can provide much greater flow when supplied with 13.8 volts than it can at <12 volts. During climb out is when you would need full flow and fortunately it is when you will have your highest charge, but I still doubt it would be sufficient. During cruise it should be adequate for a few minutes. You would also be pumping against a freewheeling impellor which would hinder the flow as well. If you could remove the impellor for the test (possible?) then you would be much better as you'd still have an alt. and no impellor to restrict flow. No fabrication required. The latest Meziere adapter has two AN-16 straight thread o-ring ports, which have a 1" ID. I have two fittings that convert this to 1.25" hose nipples, which is the same as the native Davies Craig fitting. This sounds at least as good as mine, and much better than their previous offering. I now officially hate you :-) Don't hate me yet! There is much to do before this can become a reality and it will seriously cut into any flying that I could've found time for. Lot's of things can go wrong yet. But if it works out it will be worth it. I still have to return to tech school in 2 months for another 2 months and unfortunately this is at the time when we take possession of our new place, so I'll have allot to do. Cheers, Rusty (hoping the girls kick Todd's butt in hockey again) You might get your wish. The b_____s have stacked their team with a bunch of goons. We have an upcoming game with them soon and I expect it to be a rough one. Todd (off to play hockey again tonight) ------=_NextPart_000_0079_01C51B7A.82C44CB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
 
 I went to the weather channels page, = and looked up=20 the monthly average temps for the following locations.  What's = shown is=20 the temp for the hottest month in the summer. =20
Good=20 idea
 
Prince = George BC=20 Canada- 71
Pensacola FL-=20 91 
OK, so = you're 20F=20 hotter than me. Makes you a prime test = subject.
 
 I am = in the perfect=20 position to test this though, since I have my EWP running in series = with=20 the mechanical pump.  I have in fact tested this on the = ground,=20 by removing the single belt that runs the mechanical pump, and=20 alternator.   Even for a short flight, I'm uncomfortable = with the=20 thought of taking off with no alternator.  During my = break-in time,=20 I plan to measure currents required, and also verify the length of = time that=20 the engine will run with no alternator.  Perhaps I'll be willing = to=20 make a short flight based on those results.  No promises=20 though.  My wife would not be as understanding about a 2nd = dead=20 stick landing.     

I was kinda hoping you'd remove the water = pump=20 altogether for testing, but I forgot that you are using the stock = alternator=20 mount that incorporates the WP. I really wouldn't suggest that=20 you take-off without an alternator as this is not only an = unnecessary=20 risk, but also wouldn't provide any realistic test data. The pump can = provide=20 much greater flow when supplied with 13.8 volts than it can at <12 = volts.=20 During climb out is when you would need full flow and fortunately = it is=20 when you will have your highest charge, but I still doubt it would be=20 sufficient. During cruise it should be adequate for a few minutes. You = would=20 also be pumping against a freewheeling impellor which would hinder the = flow as=20 well. If you could remove the impellor for the test (possible?) then = you would=20 be much better as you'd still have an alt. and no impellor to restrict = flow. 

No fabrication = required.  The=20 latest Meziere adapter has two AN-16 straight thread o-ring = ports, which=20 have a 1" ID.  I have two fittings that convert this to 1.25" = hose=20 nipples, which is the same as the native Davies Craig=20 fitting.   

This sounds at least as good as mine, = and much=20 better than their previous=20 = offering. 

 I now officially = hate you=20 :-)  

Don't hate me yet! There is much to do before this can = become a=20 reality and it will seriously cut into any flying that I could've = found=20 time for. Lot's of things can go wrong yet. But if it works out it will be worth it. I still have to = return to tech=20 school in 2 months for another 2 months and unfortunately this is at = the time=20 when we take possession of our new place, so I'll have allot to=20 do.

Cheers,
Rusty (hoping the girls kick Todd's butt in = hockey=20 again) 
You = might=20 get your wish. The b_____s have stacked their team with a bunch = of goons.=20 We have an upcoming game with them soon and I expect it to be a rough=20 one.
 
Todd     (off to play hockey again = tonight)
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