Return-Path: Received: from mailout1.pacific.net.au ([61.8.0.84] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c1) with ESMTP id 720813 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 08 Feb 2005 15:05:57 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=61.8.0.84; envelope-from=peon@pacific.net.au Received: from mailproxy2.pacific.net.au (mailproxy2.pacific.net.au [61.8.0.87]) by mailout1.pacific.net.au (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-7.1) with ESMTP id j18K4QA6004484 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 07:04:26 +1100 Received: from ar1 (ppp2D4F.dyn.pacific.net.au [61.8.45.79]) by mailproxy2.pacific.net.au (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-7.1) with SMTP id j18K4N8v011370 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 07:04:23 +1100 Message-ID: <005a01c50e18$f33b2230$4f2d083d@ar1> From: "Leon" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Apex End Pieces & Super Glue was Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine assembled Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 07:01:15 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0055_01C50E75.25D5AC90" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0055_01C50E75.25D5AC90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MessageYo Guys, Here's how I do it. Uncle George had some first hand experience with = this when he visited me a couple of years ago. On the Saturday, I = coached him through an assembly of a 13B turbo Series V engine over a = few beers. We even made a video of it!! Having now used the Tracy/Bruce seals (I bought them from Tracy, but I = know they are Bruce's baby), I can see the best way to assemble them is = to superglue them, just like I have always done with the factory stuff. = The earlier 1202-11-300A 3mm apex seals come with a little piece of = rubber to take the spring pressure off the end piece. However, if they = are second hand, and you don't have the little bits of rubber, so = there is no other option but to glue them. Same principle as the factory two piece 2mm N35-11-C00C seals for the = REW engines. They come factory glued! So do the 12A RX7 seals, as = well as the 3 piece early model 2mm seals. If they are not glued, the = problem is when you are putting the centre housing on, the end pieces = can pop out as the shaft is lifted. Not nice!! The end pices then = become "devil bits" . You end up down on your hands & knees saying = "where the devil did that bit go??" The trick is to scrupulously clean the surfaces with some carby = cleaner/alcohol/MEK/Acetone (whatever liver poison takes your fancy!). = Then lightly scuff the ends of the apex seal and the end piece with some = 400 - 600 wet&dry. Then glue the end piece just ever so SLIGHTLY up = from the top of the main seal. This puts it out a bit as well. Not much = superglue is needed. Just ONE drop is sufficient!! =20 I normally lay the seals down on a piece of plastic. A LIGHT mist of = WD-40 or similar will act as a release compound on the plastic. The = superglue doesn't seem to stick real well to polythene, and if one is = careful, none gets on the plastic anyway.. Only a SMALL drop is = needed. Saves getting it on your claws too!! You will only get it on = your claws if you are a messy child and use too much!! As the housings = are torqued, the glue will break. As George remembers when I showed = him, if it's done correctly, you can actually hear the end pieces = click loose as the bolts are tightened. To insert the apex seal, I normally remove the corner seal, slide the = apex seal down about half way, then install the spring(s). Then slide = the whole box & dice down, being careful not to notch the apex seal on = the edge of the trochoid. The spring(s) need to be compressed and the = seal held off the trochoid a bit (The factory seals are really soft - = Bruce's seals are like glass in comparison). I then re-install the = corner seal and rubber plug, and make sure it rides up and down on the = spring, checking that it depresses below the side of the rotor face. Anyway guys, that's my little canvas bag full of pesos for today. Cheers, Leon ----- Original Message -----=20 From: George Lendich=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 12:45 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine assembled Jesse, Yep it can be messy alright. That's why I asked the question. The real question is how do you get the apex seal in that tiny slot = when your finger's stuck permanently to it? George ( down under) Oh yeah; this reminds, how do you get the damn stuff safely off your = finger when you get too much glue on in too much a hurry ? jofarr ----- Original Message ----- From: George Lendich=20 What I have been shown is to superglue the end piece to the apex = seal, with spring place under it, and with the corner seal in place, = gently but firmly slide the apex seal ( one piece now) and spring into = place. ------=_NextPart_000_0055_01C50E75.25D5AC90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Yo Guys,
 
Here's how I do it.  Uncle George = had some=20 first hand experience with this when he visited me a couple of years = ago. =20 On the Saturday,  I coached him through an assembly of a 13B turbo = Series V=20 engine over a few beers. We even made a video of it!!
 
Having now used the Tracy/Bruce seals = (I bought=20 them from Tracy,  but I know they are Bruce's baby),  I can = see the=20 best way to assemble them is to superglue them,  just like I have = always=20 done with the factory stuff.  The earlier 1202-11-300A 3mm apex = seals=20 come with a little piece of rubber to take the spring pressure off = the end=20 piece.  However,  if they are second hand,  and you don't = have=20 the little bits of rubber,  so there is no other option but to glue = them.
 
Same principle as the factory two piece = 2mm=20 N35-11-C00C seals for the REW engines.  They come factory = glued!  So=20 do the 12A RX7 seals,  as well as the 3 piece early model 2mm=20 seals.  If they are not glued,  the problem is when you are = putting=20 the centre housing on,  the end pieces can pop out as the shaft is=20 lifted.  Not nice!!  The end pices then become "devil=20 bits" .  You end up down on your hands & knees saying = "where the=20 devil did that bit go??"
 
The trick is to scrupulously clean = the=20 surfaces with some carby cleaner/alcohol/MEK/Acetone (whatever liver = poison=20 takes your fancy!).  Then lightly scuff the ends of the apex = seal and=20 the end piece with some 400 - 600 wet&dry.  Then glue the end = piece=20 just ever so SLIGHTLY up from the top of the main seal. This = puts it=20 out a bit as well. Not much superglue is needed. Just ONE drop = is=20 sufficient!!  
 
I normally lay the seals down on a = piece of=20 plastic.  A LIGHT mist of WD-40 or similar will act as a release = compound=20 on the plastic.  The superglue doesn't seem to stick real well to=20 polythene,  and if one is careful,  none gets on the plastic=20 anyway..  Only a SMALL drop is needed.  Saves getting it = on your=20 claws too!!  You will only get it on your claws if you are a = messy=20 child and use too much!!  As the housings are torqued,  the = glue will=20 break.  As George remembers when I showed him,  if it's done=20 correctly,  you can actually hear the end pieces click = loose as=20 the bolts are tightened.
 
To insert the apex seal,  I = normally remove=20 the corner seal,  slide the apex seal down about half way,  = then=20 install the spring(s).  Then slide the whole box & dice=20 down,  being careful not to notch the apex seal on the edge of the=20 trochoid.  The spring(s) need to be compressed and the seal held = off the=20 trochoid a bit  (The factory seals are really soft - Bruce's seals = are like=20 glass in comparison).  I then re-install the corner seal and = rubber=20 plug,  and make sure it rides up and down on the spring,  = checking=20 that it depresses below the side of the rotor face.
 
Anyway guys,  that's my little = canvas bag full=20 of pesos for today.
 
Cheers,
 
Leon
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 George=20 Lendich
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, = 2005 12:45=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine = assembled

Jesse,
 
Yep it can be messy alright. That's = why I asked=20 the question.
 
The real question is how do you get = the apex seal=20 in that tiny slot when your finger's stuck permanently to = it?
George ( down under)
 
Oh yeah; this reminds, how do you = get the damn=20 stuff safely off your finger when you get too much glue on in too = much a=20 hurry ?
jofarr
----- Original Message ----- = From: George=20 Lendich
 
What I have been shown is to = superglue the=20 end piece to the apex seal,  with spring place under it, and = with the=20 corner seal in place, gently but firmly slide the apex seal ( one = piece=20 now) and spring into=20 place.
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