Return-Path: Received: from smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net ([209.86.89.68] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.5) with ESMTP id 557837 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 13:18:53 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.86.89.68; envelope-from=Dastaten@earthlink.net Received: from [24.238.206.157] (helo=earthlink.net) by smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CbNRF-0006T2-Hh for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 13:18:21 -0500 Message-ID: <41B4A1F5.2000708@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 12:16:21 -0600 From: David Staten Reply-To: Dastaten@earthlink.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: [FlyRotary]2002 crash of Taylor Coot w/13b References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: 9a30bff84e6cb88f95c85d38d22416599ef193a6bfc3dd480e3201611bc08a4ef1914d74575cd8f0d16aef77543258d0350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 24.238.206.157 Well.,.. the Mazda technicians findings WERE factual... in that the entire oil injection system had been removed. However the cause of the engine failure appears to be loss of the engine oil (and its lubricating effects) which you, me and the rest of this group know is a separate issue from the oil injection pump.

It sounds like when I get this thing flying I will need to make a "theory of operation" portion in the powerplant section of my own POH.. just in case something bad happens, the inspector will have the opportunity to see "what was I thinking" if they choose to delve that far.

Dave

Ken Welter wrote:

[FlyRotary] Re: [FlyRotary]2002 crash of Taylor Coot w/13b
   I called NTSB to tell them what I knew and they said that my information was know good to them as I had no weight and balance numbers for them and that they believed Mazda mechanics findings.

A friend that is the head of the flight standards office did call me and wanted info more for his own mind and said that it was out of his hands and in NTSB's hands and really they just fill in the blanks on the form for experimental's as we are just a thorn in there side.

Ken

Ken,
   Were you interviewed by the NTSB regarding the events and the installation?

Dave

Ken Welter wrote:

[FlyRotary] Re: [FlyRotary]2002 crash of Taylor Coot w/13b

Yes I knew the pilot of that coot very well and the engine installation was a compleat abortion and the coot was tail heavy and I knew it by just looking at it despite what his calculation were.

On the first taxi run that he got the nose wheel up it jumped in the air and with full stick forward he could not get the nose down so it stalled about 10 ft off the ground on landing it folded up two of the gear.

He then repaired the plane and wanted me to fly it for him and I said no way its tail heavy and he still refused to believe me.

He then went out and tried to fly it and right after liftoff the engine caught fire and quit, then the coot stalled and pancaked in and went up in a ball of fire.

What I suspect the fire was from was a cheep ass piece of crap oil cooled that he got at a local auto parts store in which I told him would not holed up to the high oil pressure and volume out the Mazda.

Another thing was that the oil cooler was mounted in the cowl ahead of the cheep exhaust system made from standard exhaust pipe and muffler from Napa which I told he would not hole up to the Mazda temps.

This is really just the tip of the iceberg as I could go on and on, just say this plane was an accident looking for a place to happen.

Ken Welter

Tom, as best I recall, Ken Welter reported that the Taylor Coot had an "aft
cg problem" before it flew and Ken had warned the pilot that the aft cg
could produce an unrecoverable stall condition. I believe he was also
warned that if the engine ever quite with that rear CG - an unrecoverable
stall would immediately happen. So with that initial aft CG condition and
the subsequent engine stoppage and resulting rearward drag caused by a
stopped propeller   precluded any recovery from the induced stall. The
cause of the engine stoppage was reportedly due to an oil cooler (not stock
Mazda) that burst which led to a loss of the oil and the engine eventually
seizing - from which there was no recovery.

Unfortunately the NTSB knew nothing about rotary engines, so they went to a
local Mazda dealer (who probably did not know much more) and because the oil
injection lines had been removed from the engine (and the side housings were
reportedly "blued" from the heat of no lubrication) the NTSB quickly jumped
on that as the cause of failure. Of course no injected oil might cause
your apex and possibly your corner seals to wear faster than normal but
would not cause the engine to seize. So the NTSB missed it on this one.

Unfortunately, here was an accident that did not have to happen. But, when
a person disregards well intended warnings - there is little anyone can do.

Ed Anderson

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom" <tomtugan@yahoo.com>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 9:38 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: [FlyRotary]2002 crash of Taylor Coot w/13b

> Perry, now that you describe it, seems that I did read something about an
> incident like that somewhere. Yes, I noticed the hole in the NTSB last
> paragraph.
> Tom
>
> --- Perry Mick <pjmick@viclink.com> wrote:
> > If Ken Welter is still on this list, he can fill you in. Basically the

>
>
>
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