Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao03.cox.net ([68.230.241.36] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2) with ESMTP id 381198 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:10:44 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.36; envelope-from=ALVentures@cox.net Received: from BigAl ([68.107.116.221]) by fed1rmmtao03.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02.01 201-2131-111-104-103-20040709) with ESMTP id <20040827181012.QPLL12802.fed1rmmtao03.cox.net@BigAl> for ; Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:10:12 -0400 From: "Al Gietzen" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine run Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 11:10:20 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c48c61$1d3c6470$6400a8c0@BigAl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C48C26.70DD8C70" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C48C26.70DD8C70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine run =20 At about 2000 I adjusted mixture from too lean to too rich, and nowhere = does it smooth out completely I'm with Dave on this one. You want the smoothest MAP source possible, = and that will mean connecting all 3 ports, or perhaps just finding the one = that works best. =20 I don't think I have a problem with the MAP using the average of two = ports. The reading stays quite constant for awhile, but drops when the engine falters, then comes back up. I could try putting all three together, = but then I would not have an independent backup for controller B At 2000 I'm seeing a 13.1 MAP reading. Seems low to me. Is it? I'm sure I see similar numbers.=20 The only comparable data I can find from my dyno runs was a MAP of about = 17 at 1900 rpm and the engine was putting out about 30 hp. How much power = does it take to run the prop at 2000 rpm?=20 That puts it below the stage point, yet when I turned off the primary injectors, it continued to run; just rougher. Same effect turning off = the secondaries. Are you surprised that it continued to run? The EC-2 knows that you = turned off a pair of injectors, and compensates with the others as necessary. = In other words, if you turn off the primaries, below the staging point, the EC-2 will turn on the secondaries (which were previously off). Turning = off the secondaries below the staging point shouldn't do anything, since = they weren't on anyway I guess I didn't realize that the secondaries would turn on below the staging point, but the thing that puzzles me is that turning off the secondaries reduced the rpm and made it rougher. So apparently they = were on even thought the MAP reading was 13.1. Something fishy. Fuel pressure reads 50 psi, TWM tells me it came to me preset at 43.5. = When the coolant temp read 125 when the pipes and rad tanks were just about = too hot to touch, which I guessed to be more like 140. I'm suspicious of = just about every readout. Later when the WT read 140, the CHT TC that measure temps in and out of the rads were reading about 85. I believed backup gauges were unnecessary. Painful as it may be, you're going to have to verify all your EM-2 temps = and pressures before you can believe them. I mentioned before that my fuel pressure was 42, but read 59 on the latest EM-2 software. It's reading correctly now that I've done some cal though. =20 A-r-r-gh! Oh yeah; the mixture bar reads just about full scale all the time, even = when the engine is about to die from being too lean. I have a different = heated Bosch sensor, which I assumed would have the same 0-1volt range. Maybe = not. Is the sensor output voltage low when lean or rich? =20 This is something that I've bugged Tracy about pretty extensively. Mine does the same thing yours does, and Tracy says his doesn't. I used to = use the old gauge that Tracy sold, and I've done some testing with it, and = the EM-2 both connected (verified not to interfere with each other). When = the old gauge reads mid scale, the EM-2 is about 7-8 bars. Since O2 sensors = are supposed to put out 0-1V, mid scale should be .5V, so I made a variable voltage source, and used it to simulate the O2 sensor. At .5V, the EM-2 read mid scale like it's supposed to, and the other gauge read below mid scale. From that, I concluded that the EM-2 was doing what it was = designed to do, but I can't explain why my "mid scale" mixture is well above mid scale on the EM-2. I tried using a new sensor, of the same type others = are using, and it made no difference. Now that you have me thinking about = this again, I just made a note to "fix" this in the calibration mode. =20 This is interesting. I was about to throw away my sensor, relocate the bung, and get the recommended Bosch 11027.=20 Don't get discouraged. Ah-h-h; who? me! NEVER. (whinning) All I want some simple pistons, a carburetor, and some dials with pointers. (Ju-u-u-st kidding) Thanks for your help, Al ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C48C26.70DD8C70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine run

 

At about 2000 I adjusted mixture from too = lean to too rich, and nowhere does it smooth out completely

I'm with Dave on = this one.  You want the smoothest MAP source possible, and that will = mean connecting all 3 ports, or perhaps just finding the one that works = best.

 

I don’t think I have a problem with the MAP using the average of two = ports.  The reading stays quite constant for awhile, but drops when the engine = falters, then comes back up.  I could try putting all three together, but = then I would not have an independent backup for controller B

At 2000 I’m seeing a 13.1 MAP = reading.  Seems low to me.  Is it?

I'm sure I see = similar numbers. 

The only comparable data I can find = from my dyno runs was a MAP of about 17 at 1900 rpm and the engine was putting out = about 30 hp.  How much power does it take to run the prop at 2000 = rpm?

 That puts it below the stage point, yet = when I turned off the primary injectors, it continued to run; just = rougher.  Same effect turning off the secondaries.

Are you = surprised that it continued to run?  The EC-2 knows that you turned off a pair of = injectors, and compensates with the others as necessary.  In other words, if = you turn off the primaries, below the staging point, the EC-2 will turn on the secondaries (which were previously off).  Turning off the = secondaries below the staging point shouldn't do anything, since they weren't on = anyway

I guess I didn’t realize that the = secondaries would turn on below the staging point, but the thing that puzzles me is = that turning off the secondaries reduced the rpm and made it rougher. =  So apparently they were on even thought the MAP reading was 13.1.  Something = fishy.

Fuel pressure reads 50 psi, TWM tells me it = came to me preset at 43.5.  When the coolant temp read 125 when the pipes and = rad tanks were just about too hot to touch, which I guessed to be more like 140.  I’m suspicious of just about every readout. Later when = the WT read 140, the CHT TC that measure temps in and out of the rads were = reading about 85.  I believed backup gauges were = unnecessary.

Painful as it = may be, you're going to have to verify all your EM-2 temps and pressures before = you can believe them.  I mentioned before that my fuel pressure was 42, but = read 59 on the latest EM-2 software.  It's reading correctly now that = I've done some cal though. 

A-r-r-gh!

Oh yeah; the mixture bar reads just about = full scale all the time, even when the engine is about to die from being too = lean.  I have a different heated Bosch sensor, which I assumed would have the = same 0-1volt range.  Maybe not.  Is the sensor output voltage low = when lean or rich? 

This is = something that I've bugged Tracy about pretty extensively.  = Mine does the same thing yours does, and Tracy says his = doesn't.  I used to use the old gauge that Tracy sold, and = I've done some testing with it, and the EM-2 both connected (verified not to interfere = with each other).  When the old gauge reads mid scale, the EM-2 is about = 7-8 bars.  Since O2 sensors are supposed to put out 0-1V, mid scale = should be .5V, so I made a variable voltage source, and used it to simulate the O2 sensor.  At .5V, the EM-2 read mid scale like it's supposed to, and = the other gauge read below mid scale.  From that, I concluded that the = EM-2 was doing what it was designed to do, but I can't explain why my = "mid scale" mixture is well above mid scale on the EM-2.   I = tried using a new sensor, of the same type others are using, and it made = no difference.  Now that you have me thinking about this again, I just = made a note to "fix" this in the calibration = mode.   

This is interesting.  I was about = to throw away my sensor, relocate the bung, and get the recommended Bosch = 11027.

Don't get = discouraged.

Ah-h-h; who? me!  NEVER.  = (whinning) All I want some simple pistons, a carburetor, and some dials with = pointers.  (Ju-u-u-st kidding)

Thanks for your help,

Al

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