X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Fri, 09 May 2014 07:54:27 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from nm31-vm8.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com ([72.30.239.134] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.9e) with ESMTPS id 6863283 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 07 May 2014 20:57:43 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=72.30.239.134; envelope-from=chris_zavatson@yahoo.com Received: from [66.196.81.172] by nm31.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 May 2014 00:57:06 -0000 Received: from [98.139.212.225] by tm18.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 May 2014 00:57:06 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1034.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 May 2014 00:57:06 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 798656.85835.bm@omp1034.mail.bf1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 42582 invoked by uid 60001); 8 May 2014 00:57:06 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Ymyu7xUVM1kuYq356F1ufJQgR_YEMU45nQTswFLNnPMLUVa fui1e5Y5_6V6X7AhuADK2ajCJ9WSwN5ExpR.i.LMX9qou8K7NEcq_rK0CyuA biYHumj6fvyVNsQcB_ygpUn5Bs2PNX4EaUiD3hZIS_r.JpLbStlAPmNNJ9pe 4sjlmFdhBRh8sZr5y.7kBj2VgQIyxbeQBuVU3I0VY.pbig57GS6R4oV5meqy yggyjdr.rchw8RKrRmoh69NbG0x.7yAxCg3ZuZMsNyik87fFdq0rpStDYQp. OXycskSG3T1R_dZ3_FYOcSa8iDim6tTBH1hFZgeiVWPqC2HJM4i15ua76twP OX8C.EFHYwa26OdbJmDsarhcPwMsJCIj3sAk7DLxPB5dTRSde9BkXmthiOso vIH7p7dmJLO4haB._tULEGBpXOCIy6wNSCPX582DB0BmNe5QjwEJfeoLPdAA HQj_Ibprbfg2fLizAkFmT66TFl6ijSzJWb690ELjlHucHiVP58rp7FuT883_ JGoHU8A_RUC6MPtf4yMh58zJ3aIPYUcwl7ZdpcsyHFvUuIwgZDPO2fzwrIhP znnWYwdnngWTPf0QOPavfwauum9_COb_V1xoh1d4QaOo7YvO_tk65DIy3Mes UKiP4B6_DA5zByucBJOOuCAPkTq7Ej9.jv6uzUSCqNPluli6GIcjD2kp6Og8 Ksh.i.infFpciMNWgjj6OjYHET7JqkVDUcHLKhAQWn_o1hiZdnMVZ3WxDQv5 D884y1RaMUFJdOo8fHD2m_nqLnj1O89fVqrtFVsjoGHu8OF2bgkZ5_c8Z0ck vLkr6GEwN Received: from [172.14.16.72] by web161202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 07 May 2014 17:57:06 PDT X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001,SmFjaywKSSdtIGluLsKgIE15IGludGVyZXN0IGluIHRoaXMgd2hvbGUgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiBjZW50ZXJzIG1vcmXCoGFyb3VuZCB0aGUgYWVyb2R5bmFtaWNzIG9mIHRoZSBzaXR1YXRpb24gYW5kIHdoeSB3ZSBoYXZlIHN1Y2ggb3Bwb3NpbmcgZmlyc3QtaGFuZCBhY2NvdW50czsgZXZlcnl0aGluZyBmcm9twqAgJ0l0IHdpbGwgdHJ5IHRvIGtpbGwgeW91JyB0byAnbm8tYmlnIGRlYWwnLsKgIEkgcmVtZW1iZXIgdGhlIDM2MCBoYWQgYSBzaW1pbGFyIGRpZmZlcmluZyBhY2NvdW50cy7CoCBJIHRoaW5rIHRoZXIBMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.188.663 X-Original-Message-ID: <1399510626.70340.YahooMailNeo@web161202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> X-Original-Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 17:57:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Zavatson Reply-To: Chris Zavatson Subject: Legacy Canopy X-Original-To: LML posts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="356309654-1457401288-1399510626=:70340" --356309654-1457401288-1399510626=:70340 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jack,=0AI'm in.=A0 My interest in this whole discussion centers more=A0arou= nd the aerodynamics of the situation and why we have such opposing first-ha= nd accounts; everything from=A0 'It will try to kill you' to 'no-big deal'.= =A0 I remember the 360 had a similar differing accounts.=A0 I think there w= ere bent airplanes but no fatalities.=0AI was also curious if any of the ev= ents were latched canopies that got unhooked.=0AChris=0A=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0APosted for JON ADDISON< jraddison@msn.com>:= =0A=0A> At the risk of being chastised for "not having enough data," for th= e sake of =0A>lives saved, I will make one last plea.There are 3 important = data points, =0A>that do in fact point out the critical need for a separate= red warning light =0A>in all Legacys and 235/320/360s (with forward hinged= canopies). While all the =0A>arguments of secondary canopy lock, and wheth= er to release a (very good) =0A>paper on the subject, most of the subject a= ircraft are flying around without =0A>a red warning light (separate from an= EFIS).That warning light tucked under =0A>the glare shield, that is illumi= nated anytime the canopy is not down and over =0A>center locked, if install= ed in all remaining subject aircraft, WILL save one =0A>or more lives.So wh= ile the rhubarb laced with technological-obstructionism =0A>carries on, ple= ase, lets support all these Lancairs in getting a warning =0A>light install= ed.=A0=A0 And it must be over center activated.In the mean time, =0A>NASA/A= mes Research Center, is the place to petition for the use of the 40x80 =0A>= wind tunnel using an actual current Legacy properly mounted for a matrix of= =0A>cg's, angle of attacks, and canopy opened at various airspeeds.It's no= t out =0A>of the question to solicit a somewhat abandoned bare-bones Legacy= project =0A>aircraft for a model.Seriously, this would be a great project = for Chris =0A>Zaviston.=A0=A0 (Thanks Chris!)=A0=A0However, it's not out of= the question to solicit =0A>a grad student involvement from just up the ro= ad at Stanford University which =0A>just happens to have a very robust grad= uate Aero Engr department.In years =0A>past NASA has been quite eager for U= niversity projects, even to the extent of =0A>funding some.Their engineerin= g and human resources have already well =0A>documented the value of certain= critical red "abort" lights.As for the =0A>engineering of a secondary latc= h system that does not impede egress from =0A>inside or from outside assist= ance (rescue); that can be embarked upon by home =0A>builders.=A0=A0=A0=A0L= ancair told me in-person they are not interested in the =0A>secondary latch= .Thus, the clock is ticking while worthy discussion takes =0A>place and lon= g term engineering is contemplated.=A0=A0We should all encourage to =0A>do = that which is easy and quite effective in the meantime: add a bright =0A>ca= nopy warning light for under $20.To NOT release the paper, in some form or = =0A>another, would actually be detrimental at this point, in that it well c= ould =0A>contribute to a fatal accident by not providing information useful= to a well =0A>intended builder.Interesting that Lancair on the factory pan= el for new Legacy =0A>kits includes a red light above the EFIS for canopy n= ot locked.=A0=A0The light is =0A>wired in a bundle, but the actual switchin= g is left to the builder.=0A> Jack Addison --356309654-1457401288-1399510626=:70340 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jack,
= I'm in.  My interest in this whole discussion centers more around= the aerodynamics of the situation and why we have such opposing first-hand= accounts; everything from  'It will try to kill you' to 'no-big deal'= .  I remember the 360 had a similar differing accounts.  I think = there were bent airplanes but no fatalities.
I was also curious i= f any of the events were latched canopies that got unhooked.
Chri= s

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=
Posted for JON ADDISON< jraddison@msn.com>:

> At the r= isk of being chastised for "not having enough data," for the sake of
&g= t;lives saved, I will make one last plea.There are 3 important data points,=
>that do in fact point out the critical need for a separate red war= ning light
>in all Legacys and 235/320/360s (with forward hinged canopies). While all the=
>arguments of secondary canopy lock, and whether to release a (very= good)
>paper on the subject, most of the subject aircraft are flyin= g around without
>a red warning light (separate from an EFIS).That w= arning light tucked under
>the glare shield, that is illuminated any= time the canopy is not down and over
>center locked, if installed in= all remaining subject aircraft, WILL save one
>or more lives.So whi= le the rhubarb laced with technological-obstructionism
>carries on, = please, lets support all these Lancairs in getting a warning
>light = installed.   And it must be over center activated.In the mean tim= e,
>NASA/Ames Research Center, is the place to petition for the use = of the 40x80
>wind tunnel using an actual current Legacy properly mo= unted for a matrix of
>cg's, angle of attacks, and canopy opened at various airspeeds.It's not out
>of the question to solici= t a somewhat abandoned bare-bones Legacy project
>aircraft for a mod= el.Seriously, this would be a great project for Chris
>Zaviston.&nbs= p;  (Thanks Chris!)  However, it's not out of the question t= o solicit
>a grad student involvement from just up the road at Stanf= ord University which
>just happens to have a very robust graduate Ae= ro Engr department.In years
>past NASA has been quite eager for Univ= ersity projects, even to the extent of
>funding some.Their engineeri= ng and human resources have already well
>documented the value of ce= rtain critical red "abort" lights.As for the
>engineering of a secon= dary latch system that does not impede egress from
>inside or from o= utside assistance (rescue); that can be embarked upon by home
>build= ers.    Lancair told me in-person they are not interested in the
>secondary latch.Thus, the clock is ticking while= worthy discussion takes
>place and long term engineering is contemp= lated.  We should all encourage to
>do that which is easy = and quite effective in the meantime: add a bright
>canopy warning li= ght for under $20.To NOT release the paper, in some form or
>another= , would actually be detrimental at this point, in that it well could
&g= t;contribute to a fatal accident by not providing information useful to a w= ell
>intended builder.Interesting that Lancair on the factory panel = for new Legacy
>kits includes a red light above the EFIS for canopy = not locked.  The light is
>wired in a bundle, but the actu= al switching is left to the builder.
> Jack Addison
--356309654-1457401288-1399510626=:70340--