Mailing List lml@lancaironline.net Message #69844
From: Wolfgang <Wolfgang@MiCom.net>
Sender: <marv@lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Fw: Gear Down...INOP
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 11:52:15 -0400
To: <lml@lancaironline.net>

Chris,
 
Why don't we just agree to disagree. I believe in redundancy and it looks like you don't.
 
The pressure pulse you're talking about will subside (glad you agree) and as it does, because the cylinder is only partially extended, the cylinder will continues to extend, the low switch will close again, and enable the pump to continue . . . No, the damage has NOT been done.
 
The only way the switch will stay open (the pressure stays high) is if there is a physical obstruction preventing the from moving down any further (like when it is full down).
 
Learn to live with the fact that you're not the only one that knows a thing or two about airplanes.
 
Wolfgang
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2014 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: [LML] Fw: Gear Down...INOP

Wolfgang,
Based on your statement, I don’t think you understand this failure mode.
. . but once the pulse subsides (miliseconds) that event is over because the un-extended gear down cylinder volume will absorb that pulse.”
Yes, the pulse event is over, but the damage is done.  The gear is stuck partially extended with one pressure switch open and one closed.  Your module WILL NOT clear this problem.
We have very different approaches to aircraft operation and maintenance.  I don’t install gadgets to undo a problem after it occurs.  I prevent the problem from occurring in the first place.
“This solution does not rely on the pump behaving as it should “   You should not be flying if your pump or any other part of the aircraft is not behaving as it should.  Too many have died doing this. 
Chris Zavatson
N91CZ
360std
www.N91CZ.net
On Wednesday, April 23, 2014 3:04 PM, Wolfgang <Wolfgang@MiCom.net> wrote:
The dump valves in the 360/320 did not "dump" to the reservoir, it only cross connected the high and low sides of the hydraulic pump. But you know that.
Changing it out for a valve the that does "dump" to the reservoir was one of my suggestions quite a while back since the pump body already has ports to accommodate that.
 
Again, forced running of the pump in the appropriate direction (determined by the gear switch position) when both hi and lo pressure switches have been tripped rendering the pump inoperable, WILL clear the problem. That's what a pressure switch monitoring module does, automatically. This solution works for the 320, 360 and Legacy.
 
This solution does not rely on the pump behaving as it should for the service life of the pump. I like more than one way of preventing potential hull damage.
 
This solution can also be implemented by a manual push button switch on the panel but requires pilot intervention.
 
"if condition are just right, shut the pump down"
. . . but once the pulse subsides (miliseconds) that event is over because the un-extended gear down cylinder volume will absorb that pulse.
. . . unless there is a blockage in the lines . . . then you have other problems.
There is no need to theorize the problem into obscurity. KISS principal rules.
 
Wolfgang
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 7:59 AM
Subject: Gear Down...INOP

Hitting the dump valve may or may not help the problem.
It depends on how much of a temperature increase you incurred.
Wolfgang

============================================
Wolfgang,
I suggest a review of the Legacy hydraulic system schematic in the following document (Legacy Addendum).
http://www.n91cz.net/Hydraulics/Lancair%20Hydraulics.pdf
You will see that the Legacy has a three-way dump valve that connects both high and low sides to the reservoir.  It will always dump pressure regardless of temperature rise.

Extension failures were more common in the 320/360 and can be resolved by simply adjusting the low side pressure switch higher (and if needed, the relief valve also) -see page 10.  The higher volume gear pump in the Legacies reduces the exposure to the failure when using stock pressure settings.
The initial extension sends a pressure pulse through the system and can, if condition are just right, shut the pump down.  The hydraulic system will think the gear is down and pressurized.  This type of failure is what caught Lorn off-guard and resulted in a gear-up landing. See attached, the photo of Lorn�s pressure gauges after he slid to a stop.  Both gauges are 500 psi +/-.
The gear selector is down, the low side pressure switch is open and the high side pressure switch is closed.  The very same condition as when the gear is fully down and locked.  Based on prior descriptions of your module, it will not detect this condition as a failure and will do nothing to fix it.
Most Legacy pumps have spool return springs which can cause pressure rise in both sides due to a temperature increase.  This is more often an issue sitting on the ground on a hot parking ramp where the potential temperature swing is much greater.  I recommend removing these springs per instructions in this link:

Chris Zavatson
N91CZ
360std
www.N91CZ.net


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