X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 13:10:30 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from blu0-omc3-s35.blu0.hotmail.com ([65.55.116.110] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.7) with ESMTP id 6605576 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 11:17:11 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.55.116.110; envelope-from=gary21sn@hotmail.com Received: from BLU172-DS6 ([65.55.116.74]) by blu0-omc3-s35.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 19 Nov 2013 08:16:37 -0800 X-TMN: [ZDicG0g6h3svdialqKSXV8uhXZLKAshH] X-Originating-Email: [gary21sn@hotmail.com] X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: gary21sn@hotmail.com From: "Gary Edwards" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: Subject: Re: Difference between 235 & 320 airframes X-Original-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 08:16:37 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0387_01CEE4FF.AB02BD80" In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V10.50.0019.1000 Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 08:16:37 -0800 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Nov 2013 16:16:37.0581 (UTC) FILETIME=[B910C7D0:01CEE542] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0387_01CEE4FF.AB02BD80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Swaid, =20 Not knowing the length of the grass runway you live on and the area take = off clearance, the 240 Lancair may be a bit marginal on take off = performance. It is an unusual engine in the airframe, very atypical for = what was installed in the 235 airframe. Th other 235 you mentioned on = Barnstormers, I don't see it listed now, at the low $30,000 range, is = low priced compared to others that have sold. The first question I have = is why so low priced, unless it is one to stay away from. =20 From a takeoff performance standpoint, my machine is off the ground in = 1,000 feet with well over 1,000 ft/min. climb on a fixed pitch prop. = But this 320 engine is above stock build. For me it is not the takeoff, = but the landing performance that is a limiter. With a fixed pitch prop, = there is no help in slowing the plane down on landing. With runway used = in ground effect, landing and roll out with brakes that fade, my own = personal minimum runway length is 3,000 feet which includes about 500 = feet of safety margins. I tend to approach at speeds on the high side = to keep the angle of attack down a bit, so others may accomplish their = landings in a shorter distance with similar equipment. =20 Gary Edwards LNC2 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: swaid rahn=20 To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 5:25 AM Subject: [LML] Re: Difference between 235 & 320 airframes Thanks Gary, Bob and Bill for responding to my question. I have flown a = 360 and thought it flew very similar to the 4PT I was flying at the = time. ( I love the way they both fly). Once you get used to flying with = high wing loading and speed the other airplanes out there just don't = measure up to a Lancair. I was thinking of buying something that was = fast and efficient to fly (a Lancair) at a reasonable cost while I = finish the 4PT. I saw a 235 with a IO-240 Cont. and thought that might be a good = combination. I have worked on a lot of diamond DA-20's with that engine = and like it. You could also set it up for LOP operations. The only issue = I might have is a grass runway I live on. I wonder what the real take off performance of the 2 place Lancair's = are? Swaid On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 7:56 PM, Gary Edwards = > wrote: =20 To expand on Bill's description, other major items the 320/360 airframe = is: =20 1 inch wider 9 inches longer Larger rudder (also shaped differently Larger canopy frame & glass (more head room) Longer gear legs Flap motor mounted behind the seat Longer depth baggage area (baggage bulkhead farther rear) Smaller header tank Larger wing tanks Beefier horiz. stab spar Additional tail cone bulkhead Screw in tie down rings (235's have release pin rings) Removable wing tips Larger instrument panel Different shaped instrument panel Different shaped nose gear tunnel (smaller) Gear hydraulics plumbed different Rudder cable routing different Gear wells wider Higher empty weight=20 Higher gross weight =20 A large percentage of 235 airframes have been upgraded with 320/360 = features, ie:=20 =20 Engine Gear legs Flap motor mounting Flap hinging Beefier horiz stab spar Tail cone bulkhead Nose gear oleo strut Nose gear tunnel Gear hydraulics plumbing Rudder cable routing Gear wells wider Removable wing tips Larger rudder =20 When looking at images of LNC2's look at the cowl inlets and the shape = of the rudder counter weight for the most obvious indicators of which = airframe it may be. Keep in mind that there are some 235 cowls with = round air inlets holes. Don Goetz made a batch of them in the early = '90's. =20 Gary Edwards LNC 2 =20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bill Harrelson=20 To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 12:43 PM Subject: [LML] Re: Difference between 235 & 320 airframes Swaid, =20 There is NO difference between a 360 and a 320 airframe. Just depends on = which engine you use. The 235 airframe, however, is considerably = different from the 320/360. It is smaller, the flaps are hinged on the = upper trailing edge vs lower skin on the 320/360. The stock 235 has a = rubber doughnut type nose gear dampening, the 320/360 have nose gear = oleo struts. The 235 has rectangular engine inlets, the 320/360 have = round. I believe that these are the major differences. There are = probably several more minor differences. There are examples of 235 = airframes with 320 engines but this does NOT make it a 320. Considerable = cowling and engine mount work are required to fit a 320 or 360 engine in = a 235 airframe. =20 =20 Bill Harrelson N5ZQ 320 2,150 hrs N6ZQ IV 400 hrs =20 =20 =20 =20 From: swaid rahn=20 Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 8:44 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Subject: [LML] Difference between 235 & 320 airframes =20 =20 Hello everyone, What is the difference between the Lancair 235 kit and the 320 kit = besides the obvious engine size. I was told the 320 and 360 are the same = kit, is the 235 kit much smaller? There is a flying 235 with a 320 lyc. = in it for sale on Barnstormers for the low 30's and I am curious if that = is a good deal. I am familiar with the LNC4PT. Have flown & maintained one for 7 years = and involved in a build of another one. Thanks, Swaid ------=_NextPart_000_0387_01CEE4FF.AB02BD80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 =20 =20
Swaid,
 
Not knowing the length of the grass runway you live on and the = area=20 take off clearance, the 240 Lancair may be a bit marginal on take off=20 performance.  It is an unusual engine in the airframe, very = atypical=20 for what was installed in the 235 airframe.  Th other 235 you = mentioned on=20 Barnstormers, I don't see it listed now, at the low $30,000 range, is = low priced=20 compared to others that have sold.  The first question I have is = why so low=20 priced, unless it is one to stay away from.
 
From a takeoff performance standpoint, my machine is off the ground = in=20 1,000 feet with well over 1,000 ft/min. climb on a fixed pitch=20 prop.  But this 320 engine is above stock build.  For me = it is=20 not the takeoff, but the landing performance that is a limiter.  = With a=20 fixed pitch prop, there is no help in slowing the plane down on = landing. =20 With runway used in ground effect, landing and roll out with brakes=20 that fade, my own personal minimum runway length is 3,000 feet = which=20 includes about 500 feet of safety margins.  I tend to approach = at=20 speeds on the high side to keep the angle of attack down a bit, so = others may=20 accomplish their landings in a shorter distance with similar = equipment.
 
Gary Edwards
LNC2   
-----=20 Original Message -----
From:=20 swaid=20 rahn
Sent:=20 Tuesday, November 19, 2013 5:25 AM
Subject:=20 [LML] Re: Difference between 235 & 320 airframes

Thanks Gary, Bob and Bill for responding to my question. I have = flown a=20 360 and thought it flew very similar to the 4PT I was flying at the = time. ( I=20 love the way they both fly). Once you get used to flying with high = wing=20 loading and speed the other airplanes out there just don't measure up = to a=20 Lancair. I was thinking of buying something that was fast and = efficient to=20 fly (a Lancair) at a reasonable cost while I finish the = 4PT.
 I saw a 235 with a IO-240 Cont. and thought that might be a = good=20 combination. I have worked on a lot of diamond DA-20's with that = engine and=20 like it. You could also set it up for LOP operations. The only issue I = might=20 have is a grass runway I live on.
I wonder what the real take off performance of the 2 place = Lancair's=20 are?
Swaid


On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 7:56 PM, Gary = Edwards <gary21sn@hotmail.com> wrote:
=20
To expand on Bill's description, other major items the 320/360 = airframe=20 is:
 
1 inch wider
9 inches longer
Larger rudder (also shaped differently
Larger canopy frame & glass (more head room)
Longer gear legs
Flap motor mounted behind the seat
Longer depth baggage area (baggage bulkhead farther rear)
Smaller header tank
Larger wing tanks
Beefier horiz. stab spar
Additional tail cone bulkhead
Screw in tie down rings (235's have release pin rings)
Removable wing tips
Larger instrument panel
Different shaped instrument panel
Different shaped nose gear tunnel (smaller)
Gear hydraulics plumbed different
Rudder cable routing different
Gear wells wider
Higher empty weight
Higher gross weight
 
A large percentage of 235 airframes have been upgraded with = 320/360=20 features, ie:
 
Engine
Gear legs
Flap motor mounting
Flap hinging
Beefier horiz stab spar
Tail cone bulkhead
Nose gear oleo strut
Nose gear tunnel
Gear hydraulics plumbing
Rudder cable routing
Gear wells wider
Removable wing tips
Larger rudder
 
When looking at images of LNC2's look at the cowl inlets and=20 the shape of the rudder counter weight for the most obvious = indicators=20 of which airframe it may be.  Keep in mind that there are = some 235=20 cowls with round air inlets holes.  Don Goetz made a batch of = them in=20 the early '90's.
 
Gary Edwards
LNC 2  
 
-----=20 Original Message ----- =20
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 12:43 PM
Subject: [LML] Re: Difference between 235 & 320=20 airframes

Swaid,
 
There is NO difference between a = 360 and a=20 320 airframe. Just depends on which engine you use. The 235 = airframe,=20 however, is considerably different from the 320/360. It is smaller, = the=20 flaps are hinged on the upper trailing edge vs lower skin on the = 320/360.=20 The stock 235 has a rubber doughnut type nose gear dampening, the = 320/360=20 have nose gear oleo struts. The 235 has rectangular engine inlets, = the=20 320/360 have round. I believe that these are the major differences. = There=20 are probably several more minor differences. There are examples of = 235=20 airframes with 320 engines but this does NOT make it a 320. = Considerable=20 cowling and engine mount work are required to fit a 320 or 360 = engine in a=20 235 airframe. 
 
Bill Harrelson
N5ZQ 320 2,150 hrs
N6ZQ  IV  400 hrs
 
 
 
 
From: swaid rahn
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 8:44 AM
Subject: [LML] Difference between 235 & 320=20 airframes
 
=20
Hello everyone,
What is the difference between the Lancair 235 kit and the 320 = kit=20 besides the obvious engine size. I was told the 320 and 360 are the = same=20 kit, is the 235 kit much smaller? There is a flying 235 with a 320 = lyc. in=20 it for sale on Barnstormers for the low 30's and I am curious if = that is a=20 good deal.
I am familiar with the LNC4PT. Have flown & maintained one = for 7=20 years and involved in a build of another one.
Thanks,
=
Swaid
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