X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 10:32:09 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail.sdc.com ([161.58.179.10] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.7) with ESMTPS id 6545755 for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 18 Oct 2013 09:58:50 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=161.58.179.10; envelope-from=ronald@sdc.com Received: from ASUSpc [97.68.193.49] by mail.sdc.com with ESMTP (SMTPD-12.3.0.100) id dc4c0000cc48ec06; Fri, 18 Oct 2013 09:57:54 -0400 From: "Ronald Stevens" X-Original-To: , References: <5C92D042CBEBFF46A7BE287DB40D49781A0D2C@bluexch01.grob.local> In-Reply-To: <5C92D042CBEBFF46A7BE287DB40D49781A0D2C@bluexch01.grob.local> Subject: RE: [LML] Re: IV-P Recent Trip - more power settings X-Original-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 09:58:12 -0400 X-Original-Message-ID: <15b901cecc0a$16175450$4245fcf0$@sdc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_15BA_01CECBE8.8F0C9220" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 15.0 thread-index: AQIFwuUUVwTcKpo19qmQCYAUJWWUo5mMjarw Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_15BA_01CECBE8.8F0C9220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ralf =20 I noticed some things in your explanation which make me a bit confused. = You are saying you are determing the TIT temp, at which power setting? = As the TIT has a higher temp on a lower MAP, right ?! (I mean I actually = did this test with 2 different MAP and the TIT just peaks at a different = temp. =20 =3D=3D Ronald =20 From: bronnenmeier@GROBSYSTEMS.COM [mailto:bronnenmeier@GROBSYSTEMS.COM] = Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 9:13 AM To: ronald@sdc.com; lml@lancaironline.net Subject: RE: [LML] Re: IV-P Recent Trip - more power settings =20 Hello Ronald, =20 I agree the one power setting at FL110 with MAP33.8 and 20.8 gal/hr = might not have been a very good idea =E2=80=93 as I said I won=E2=80=99t = do this again (it was still LOP on all cylinders). But the engine at = this time for e.g. seemed a lot happier than with the power setting at = FL230 with MAP31.9 and 16.3 gal/hr =20 First I determined my TIT peak temp (Craig Berland gave me really good = instruction here) =E2=80=93 it turned out to be around 1720=20 =20 After the climb I level off the plane and let the airspeed build up. = Then I pull the mixture back within on second until my fuel flow is in = the 16 gal/hr range. I can feel the loss of power there. My TIT is then = usually 1500=E2=80=A61550. I know that I am on the lean side then. Then = I keep adding fuel until my TIT is 1600=E2=80=A61630. I=E2=80=99m always = using the higher TIT which is always TIT#2. Write down the TIT, the fuel = flow and the MAP. If you do this several times you get to know your = engine and you will be able to predict what your engine will do = depending on your input. =20 Ralf =20 From: Ronald Stevens [mailto:ronald@sdc.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 2:33 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net =20 Subject: RE: [LML] Re: IV-P Recent Trip - more power settings =20 Hello Craig =20 I am surprised about your stats, as I recall fuel flow values between 19 = and 22gph were the area=E2=80=99s where the engine gets really beaten = up? I might be wrong, but on my last flight I tried just to see where it = peaks (TIT) and was actually surprised that it peaked at a lower TIT = than before. =20 In other words, if you use =E2=80=98your TIT temp=E2=80=99 as your gauge = than this might be off as it does change with altitude and OAT. =20 Now I am still not very comfortable looking for peak (even going from = the lean side) but it will get your surprised sometimes. I usually go = smooth and fast (within 4 secs) and then I just know it was higher, but = by how much I do not really know as I do not want to be in the red box = too long. =20 Now in the past I was leaning on a much smaller power setting like 60%, = and when I knew and was less than 80% LOP I just bumped the throttle = back to 75%, but I am not even sure if this is the right or perhaps = totally wrong way.=20 =20 But some of the values in your chart looks like dangerous = territory=E2=80=A6.I just hope I am wrong with my assumption.=20 =20 So my questions: Were you always leaning and if so did you do this at that power setting? = Did you lean on TIT or first/last cylinder? (depending from which side = you lean) From the lean side or rich side? =20 =3D=3D Ronald (>400hours IVP, n45HL, the rest I do not count lol)=20 =20 =20 From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = bronnenmeier@GROBSYSTEMS.COM =20 Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 9:14 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net =20 Subject: [LML] Re: IV-P Recent Trip - more power settings =20 Hello Craig, =20 Thank you very much for your picture. I got a lot of information out of = it and spent quite some time looking at it =E2=80=93 you can feed me a = lot more of these before I will get tired of it=E2=80=A6 =20 I kept a log of my power settings on different flights for the last year = and I found one setting that is very similar to yours =E2=80=93 = unfortunately I didn=E2=80=99t get that good of a tailwind=20 My fuel flow shows a little less =E2=80=93 may be this is a calibration = problem? My TAS shows higher =E2=80=93 but mine comes from the bezel and = is influenced by friction heating and air compression =E2=80=93 it would = make me very happy if someone on the list could give me a correction = factor for my speeds/conditions. =20 When I put my scribbled notes in a spread sheet and sorted it to = altitude and OAT I found something in my opinion very interesting: on = the lower altitudes the OAT has very little influence on the speed. At = the higher altitudes (>=3DFL180) you can clearly see how the airspeed = decreases with increasing OAT because I need to run the engine at lower = power settings to get similar TIT and CHT.=20 =20 On low altitudes ( = [mailto:marv@lancair.net]=20 Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 3:47 PM To: lml Subject: Re: IV-P Recent Trip =20 Posted for Craig Berland >: > I took this picture last Friday just to record the great tailwind. > With the recent LOP talk, Oil Temp, etc=E2=80=A6.I thought some might = find this=20 >interesting. > I am LOP and from previous tests, about 8 kts slow of ROP. > Craig Berland > N7VG >=20 >=20 >=20 ------=_NextPart_000_15BA_01CECBE8.8F0C9220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Ralf

 

I noticed some things in your explanation which make me a bit = confused. You are saying you are determing the TIT temp, at which power = setting? As the TIT has a higher temp on a lower MAP, right ?! (I mean I = actually did this test with 2 different MAP and the TIT just peaks at a = different temp.

 

=3D=3D Ronald

 

From: = bronnenmeier@GROBSYSTEMS.COM [mailto:bronnenmeier@GROBSYSTEMS.COM] =
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 9:13 AM
To: = ronald@sdc.com; lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: RE: [LML] Re: = IV-P Recent Trip - more power = settings

 

Hello Ronald,

 

I agree the one power setting at FL110 with MAP33.8 and 20.8 gal/hr = might not have been a very good idea =E2=80=93 as I said I won=E2=80=99t = do this again (it was still LOP on all cylinders). But the engine at = this time for e.g. seemed a lot happier than with the power setting at = FL230 with MAP31.9 and 16.3 gal/hr

 

First I determined my TIT peak temp (Craig Berland gave me really = good instruction here) =E2=80=93 it turned out to be around 1720 =

 

After the climb I level off the plane and let the airspeed build up. = Then I pull the mixture back within on second until my fuel flow is in = the 16 gal/hr range. I can feel the loss of power there. My TIT is then = usually 1500=E2=80=A61550. I know that I am on the lean side then. Then = I keep adding fuel until my TIT is 1600=E2=80=A61630. I=E2=80=99m always = using the higher TIT which is always TIT#2. Write down the TIT, the fuel = flow and the MAP. If you do this several times you get to know your = engine and you will be able to predict what your engine will do = depending on your input.

 

Ralf

 

From:= = Ronald Stevens [mailto:ronald@sdc.com] =
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 2:33 PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sub= ject: RE: [LML] Re: IV-P Recent Trip - more power = settings

 

Hello Craig

 

I am surprised about your stats, as I recall fuel flow values between = 19 and 22gph were the area=E2=80=99s where the engine gets really beaten = up? I might be wrong, but on my last flight I tried just to see where it = peaks (TIT) and was actually surprised that it peaked at a lower TIT = than before.

 

In other words, if you use =E2=80=98your TIT temp=E2=80=99 as your = gauge than this might be off as it does change with altitude and = OAT.

 

Now I am still not very comfortable looking for peak (even going from = the lean side) but it will get your surprised sometimes. I usually go = smooth and fast (within 4 secs) and then I just know it was higher, but = by how much I do not really know as I do not want to be in the red box = too long.

 

Now in the past I was leaning on a much smaller power setting like = 60%, and when I knew and was less than 80% LOP I just bumped the = throttle back to 75%, but I am not even sure if this is the right or = perhaps totally wrong way.

 

But some of the values in your chart looks like dangerous = territory=E2=80=A6.I just hope I am wrong with my assumption. =

 

So my questions:

Were you always leaning and if so did you do this at that power = setting?

Did you lean on TIT or first/last cylinder? (depending from which = side you lean)

From the lean side or rich side?

 

=3D=3D Ronald (>400hours IVP, n45HL, the rest I do not count lol) =

 

 

From: Lancair = Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of bronnenmeier@GROBSYSTEMS.COM=
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 9:14 AM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sub= ject: [LML] Re: IV-P Recent Trip - more power = settings

 

Hello Craig,

 

Thank you very much for your picture. I got a lot of information out = of it and spent quite some time looking at it =E2=80=93 you can feed me = a lot more of these before I will get tired of = it=E2=80=A6

 

I kept a log of my power settings on different flights for the last = year and I found one setting that is very similar to yours =E2=80=93 = unfortunately I didn=E2=80=99t get that good of a tailwind =

My fuel flow shows a little less =E2=80=93 may be this is a = calibration problem? My TAS shows higher =E2=80=93 but mine comes from = the bezel and is influenced by friction heating and air compression = =E2=80=93 it would make me very happy if someone on the list could give = me a correction factor for my speeds/conditions.

 

When I put my scribbled notes in a spread sheet and sorted it to = altitude and OAT I found something in my opinion very interesting: on = the lower altitudes the OAT has very little influence on the speed. = At the higher altitudes (>=3DFL180) you can clearly see how = the airspeed decreases with increasing OAT because I need to run = the engine at lower power settings to get similar TIT and CHT. =

 

On low altitudes (<FL120) it seems I can feed my engine a lot more = fuel without significant influence on the CHT (may be because of my = plenum) - The high power setting at FL110 was more than 1.5 years ago = =E2=80=93 I kept it in there for reference and I won=E2=80=99t do this = again

 

On some warm/humid days I just have the feeling my engine = doesn=E2=80=99t like it at altitudes higher than FL190. I don=E2=80=99t = like higher than FL230 because I don=E2=80=99t have winglets and it = doesn=E2=80=99t feel that firm anymore

 

Info for the chart: TIT is my TIT2 - it is usually 40F warmer, TIT = max is around 1720, warmest CHT is always #2 and CHT#1 comes close after = it, the TAS comes from the bezel and would need to be corrected, all = settings were in cruise for at least 45 min or so =E2=80=93 sometimes up = to 2 to 3 hours.

 

Ralf

 

 

Alt.

OAT

MAP

RPM

Fuel = flow

TIT

CHT

IAS

TAS

% = HP

ft

F

inHG<= /span>

1/min=

GPH

F

F

kts

kts

 

10

40

29.9

2,500

17.0

1,570

310

212

240

= 69%

10

45

32.2

2,500

18.1

1,600

322

208

248

= 73%

10

54

32.4

2,500

17.9

1,620

344

205

246

= 73%

11

35

33.8

2,500

20.8

1,690

356

220

260

= 84%

11

53

34.0

2,500

18.6

1,610

351

204

249

= 75%

12

34

32.3

2,500

17.9

1,590

318

205

251

= 73%

12

36

32.6

2,500

18.6

1,620

330

209

255

= 75%

12

47

32.3

2,500

17.9

1,610

344

203

251

= 73%

12

49

32.4

2,500

18.1

1,610

340

204

252

= 73%

16

40

32.4

2,500

17.8

1,620

366

199

264

= 72%

18

13

34.0

2,500

19.1

1,630

346

205

278

= 77%

18

28

32.3

2,500

18.0

1,620

362

194

265

= 73%

19

21

33.1

2,500

18.2

1,625

360

195

275

= 74%

19

26

32.4

2,500

17.9

1,620

366

196

276

= 73%

20

20

32.4

2,500

17.8

1,625

366

194

278

= 72%

20

20

32.4

2,500

18.1

1,625

362

194

278

= 73%

20

21

32.4

2,500

17.9

1,620

368

190

274

= 73%

20

32

32.3

2,500

17.3

1,620

377

186

270

= 70%

21

10

32.4

2,500

17.9

1,625

360

192

278

= 72%

21

18

32.4

2,500

17.7

1,620

370

191

280

= 72%

22

22

31.9

2,500

16.9

1,620

380

182

272

= 69%

23

0

32.4

2,500

17.7

1,620

368

190

284

= 72%

23

0

32.4

2,500

17.8

1,620

373

188

282

= 72%

23

13

32.3

2,500

17.1

1,630

379

185

280

= 69%

23

20

31.9

2,500

16.3

1,600

380

179

274

= 66%

 

 

From:= = marv@lancair.net [mailto:marv@lancair.net] =
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 3:47 PM
To: = lml
Subject: Re: IV-P Recent Trip

 




P= osted for Craig Berland <cberland@systems3.net>:
<= br>> I took this picture last Friday just to record the great = tailwind.
> With the recent LOP talk, Oil Temp, etc=E2=80=A6.I = thought some might find this
>interesting.
> I am LOP and = from previous tests, about 8 kts slow of ROP.
> Craig = Berland
> N7VG
>
>
> =

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