X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2013 17:40:03 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from qmta01.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.16] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.5) with ESMTP id 6301672 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sat, 01 Jun 2013 08:18:54 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.62.16; envelope-from=jmorgan1023@comcast.net Received: from omta18.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.90]) by qmta01.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id izuh1l0021wpRvQ510JJJX; Sat, 01 Jun 2013 12:18:18 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.115] ([24.11.157.196]) by omta18.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id j0JJ1l0084EXR5U3e0JJKg; Sat, 01 Jun 2013 12:18:18 +0000 From: Jack Morgan Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1283) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_61178621-7745-4F14-A6E0-4CE99D0AC3E4" Subject: Re: lml IV P flying X-Original-Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 08:18:18 -0400 In-Reply-To: X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List References: X-Original-Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1283) --Apple-Mail=_61178621-7745-4F14-A6E0-4CE99D0AC3E4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Thanks to all who added to my comments. John's below jogged me to add to = the perspective..... The "back side of the curve" is a significant and = large sped range in a IV as compared to most GA aircraft where it is a = narrow band very near stall...... lot's more room for an untrained pilot = to get into trouble. Jack Morgan On Jun 1, 2013, at 6:00 AM, Lancair Mailing List wrote: > From: John Barrett <2thman1@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [LML] IV P flying > Date: May 31, 2013 6:24:54 PM EDT > To: lml@lancaironline.net >=20 >=20 > Jack, >=20 > Well, I agree sort of with your conclusions but not necessarily your = explanation. I think you are referring to what we used to call the back = side of the power curve centuries ago in the USN. What is happening = when you get slow and is more critical with high wing loading is that = the L/D ratio is decaying and perhaps in that scenario some would not = recognize the need to compensate and correct by lowering the nose and = adding power. =20 >=20 > One of the best lessons I ever learned and I think this came from = carrier landing instruction and practice is that on approach and during = landings you control airspeed with attitude (stick) and you control rate = of descent with power. It's probably not intuitive at first for most = but once you get it in your head it makes landing phase so much more = controllable and sensible (ask Grayhawk about this term) that your = landings will forever be more safely accomplished no matter what type of = airplane you happen to be operating at the moment. >=20 > John Barrett > 31VP >=20 > Sent from my iPad >=20 >=20 > On May 31, 2013, at 10:26 AM, Jack Morgan = wrote: >=20 >> This will probably stir some controversy but I think it is important = to stay safer in a IV. >>=20 >> There is recent discussion about AOA and vortex generators with the = IV and I will leave that to owners preferences. I believe the real issue = with the IV is the rapidly increasing sink rate below 95 knots. Like all = really high performance aircraft, slowing results in very significant = power off sink rates well above stall. The high wing loading inherent in = these aircraft is the reason for the speed/efficiency and the trade off = is the sink. For pilots not used to this class of aircraft when slow, = pulling back hoping to climb results in a very unfamiliar rapid loss of = speed with no change in descent rate. Unless back pressure is relaxed = quickly the remaining speed above stall dissipates very quickly. Once = the departure comes, adding power just aggravates the spin. >>=20 >> The main thought is to stay above 100 knots so as to stay high enough = on the speed curve to give a normal feel/result to the controls. The = recommended 120 knots in the pattern and 100 knots over the fence meets = this demand. If you have an AOA in your IV and can get it to blow the = whistle at 95 knots I suggest you do so. >>=20 >> Those who would add vortex generators or an AOA so they can purposely = operate the IV near stall are venturing into a potentially very dark = place with little to be gained. Most aircraft in this class are = turbines/jets and the operating manuals don't allow stalls or very slow = flight. >>=20 >> Jack Morgan >> -- >> For archives and unsub = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html >=20 --Apple-Mail=_61178621-7745-4F14-A6E0-4CE99D0AC3E4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Jack = Morgan

On Jun 1, 2013, at 6:00 AM, Lancair = Mailing List wrote:

From: John Barrett = <Subject: Re: [LML] IV P = flying
To: jmorgan1023@comcast.net> = wrote:

This will probably stir some = controversy but I think it is important to stay safer in a = IV.

There is recent discussion about AOA and vortex = generators with the IV and I will leave that to owners preferences. I = believe the real issue with the IV is the rapidly increasing sink rate = below 95 knots. Like all really high performance aircraft, slowing = results in very significant power off sink rates well above stall. The = high wing loading inherent in these aircraft is the reason for the = speed/efficiency and the trade off is the sink. For pilots not used to = this class of aircraft when slow, pulling back hoping to climb results = in a very unfamiliar rapid loss of speed with no change in descent rate. = Unless back pressure is relaxed quickly the remaining speed above stall = dissipates very quickly. Once the departure comes, adding power just = aggravates the spin.

The main = thought is to stay above 100 knots so as to stay high enough on the = speed curve to give a normal feel/result to the controls. The = recommended 120 knots in the pattern and 100 knots over the fence meets = this demand. If you have an AOA in your IV and can get it to blow the = whistle at 95 knots I suggest you do so.

Those who would = add vortex generators or an AOA so they can purposely operate the IV = near stall are venturing into a potentially very dark place with little = to be gained. Most aircraft in this class are turbines/jets and the = operating manuals don't allow stalls or very slow = flight.

Jack = Morgan
--
For archives = and unsub