Mailing List lml@lancaironline.net Message #65618
From: <Sky2high@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Loss of power on takeoff
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 16:09:18 -0400 (EDT)
To: <lml@lancaironline.net>
Angier,
 
Let's see, Dave Morss's occupation is ....tada ..., a test pilot.  He tests airplanes every day ... he flies in the Reno air races.  He accumulates 100's of hours every year -  they are not hair-raising because he prepares and plans for failures at each take off.
 
Let's see, most pilots probably flew less than 149 normal, uneventful hours last year (my best guess) and less than one cumulative hour of sheer terror.  Not bad.  His occupation is .... not a professional test pilot.  His lottery number is ..... not a winner.
 
I'm a sensible guy by my own definition.  I used to go out and practice 60 degree banked turns at cruise power through 360 degrees both left and right.  2 G turns that, after the first 30 degrees of turn, got interesting to maintain both altitude and angle whilst applying plenty of nose-up pitch force.  Any variance in pitch force or bank angle was a very quick divergence from altitude.  Speed also. 
 
Doing a 70 degree bank for 240 degrees of turn with power off while maintaining a good speed margin above stall and close to the ground to boot?  Hey, now there is some of that sheer terror.  Did you remember to pull the prop to coarse pitch? Are the wheels still out?  Flaps in take off position?  Some combo of those things?  Let's also remember that the stall speed increases quite a bit at high G loadings.  Oh, you think you can get a passenger to go along with a test or are you just going to load up with some sand bags in the right seat - after all, bags don't scream.
 
Let's see, just before taking the runway I do a mental review -- at what point could I set it back down on the departure runway if there was an engine failure?  If not, do I have a set down option within 30 degrees of the runway heading if the failure occurs below 700 feet AGL?  Note that some time before 700 AGL the gear is up and tucked away, the flaps are retracted and 135 KIAS has been reached - no power changes have been made.  After 700 AGL there are more options including perhaps turning back - even at a 60 degree banked turn.  70? Uh, too much for me.
 
I have included a spreadsheet that you may find interesting.  It allows you to enter a true air speed (like 107 for approximate best glide 300 series), A level flight stall speed (like 70 for 300 series) and a descent rate to calculate altitude loss based on time spent in the turn.  360 degrees is used because you need 270 to get back to the runway alignment and then a 90 to fly the alignment.  You can put in your own numbers.....  But, remember that flap position is not included since the 300 series, with -7 degree reflexed flaps, makes the whole thing more interesting - better lift over drag (L/D) when the flaps are taken out of reflex and then the effect on best glide speed and ...... yada, yada, yada.
 
Blue Skies,
 
Scott Krueger
 
 
In a message dated 6/1/2013 12:30:09 P.M. Central Daylight Time, N4ZQ@VERIZON.NET writes:
The current issue of Sport Aviation included an article from Dave Morss with 180º turns on takeoff to return to the runway. Before practicing such a maneuver, I thought I'd check in here with the local gurus with regard to 320/360
operations. In the article, it is stated that a 500' 70º bank 180º turn is doable so I'll be practicing this aggressively at altitude. But then again, my skill level might be at his ankle level on a good day. So, how many of you practice this turn,
and with or without any flap setting, etc.?

Angier Ames
N4ZQ
32hrs
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