X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 16:14:29 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from nm20.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com ([98.139.212.179] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.5) with ESMTPS id 6300536 for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 31 May 2013 13:40:13 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.212.179; envelope-from=charliekohler@yahoo.com Received: from [98.139.212.148] by nm20.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2013 17:39:40 -0000 Received: from [98.139.212.251] by tm5.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2013 17:39:39 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1060.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2013 17:39:39 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 975289.27269.bm@omp1060.mail.bf1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 91496 invoked by uid 60001); 31 May 2013 17:39:39 -0000 DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=cH2NOwLhkRW5MUxAJFlgGEIh+yeOTAKL2OfHF9FnA/kuJtdeILKJTUCCnFVOdY5pQckFghe9yTxae3/10wctns2ypNrOe0hbHw3Bn8RThTh/d3arHiFu9WNm0X1Gq6BlR9LXwARPowy5OMrQKQed+JtoOFsdAha5zT2dL3BK/fY=; X-YMail-OSG: I5yBKZ8VM1kUFY3yazfvWYunZgsHCI3oddtvWlrrtZZw2Uk s1WLgL9eNd75rU3eaelD08BiP7Ky2Qqcg6b2Y6uwxOi7hEih6bmeE34SHWyb Y2xg7ptUclZ5AXoJ8sHKDNa3A_ZHUAbskoEVxpj.DlfYsGOZBMtWWtuc6DRW 2eMy7Y5mr7ayKldAyIrKeidnUt_ZFFffbAxcMVdyFp7NCdQMQ9dxD94UILDE 5FtGu820zrgzRlF6t7JjAEnVWTXfpDUl1v68vWQRhdFnaygx0Qmmo.yY1IaK OYvfifCFiXOmCx4XV60NXm76vfSGWSXVYBfCzrwDa0Xr9KVVoPoHpRaZnjcg 4GfMpRYxT4EWCpFf2DZYmPMgts4dSqKxvgYmUXZt_i27Pz5mV7r1.z07Zsun KpAfcFzlpmyNy92FxH2Dgix2xzyTnl_K0bsNbNcmxW_W0FuHUqoEW0OfKMBe NLQfH5L_W6CVszCEFY35VnhY32Bj4fK9y3WJoF0t2aW4T3OzSatvuIxrUmxD eUAc.TUs4P9eSQ_WgFfQxp0DHE.BFADzaaoW.wFRs_RDOMdk7VuewjC.iRbr G6JODQ0dNIEHAPmHoZqSa61J8sungpB2bPIaMMdd.cV3XHTgzliQ55D63pOa FTsBBefmDYg-- Received: from [67.8.20.66] by web141703.mail.bf1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 31 May 2013 10:39:39 PDT X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001,V2VsbCBzYWlkIEphY2suIEhpZ2ggc2luayByYXRlcyBhcmUgb25seSBjdXJlZCB3aXRoIGhpZ2ggcG93ZXIgYW5kIG9yIHBvaW50aW5nIHRoZSBub3NlIERPV04uwqAKCgpDaGFybGllIEsuCgpTZWUgbWUgb24gdGhlIHdlYiBhdCAKaHR0cDovL3d3dy5sYW5jYWlyLWl2LmNvbS8KCgoKX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KRnJvbTogSmFjayBNb3JnYW4gPGptb3JnYW4xMDIzQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0PgpUbzogbG1sQGxhbmNhaXJvbmxpbmUubmV0IApTZW50OiBGcmlkYXksIE1heSAzMSwgMjABMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.145.547 References: X-Original-Message-ID: <1370021979.82343.YahooMailNeo@web141703.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> X-Original-Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 10:39:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Charlie Kohler Reply-To: Charlie Kohler Subject: Re: [LML] IV P flying X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="1628430994-1703802127-1370021979=:82343" --1628430994-1703802127-1370021979=:82343 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well said Jack. High sink rates are only cured with high power and or point= ing the nose DOWN.=A0=0A=0A=0ACharlie K.=0A=0ASee me on the web at =0Ahttp:= //www.lancair-iv.com/=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: J= ack Morgan =0ATo: lml@lancaironline.net =0ASent: F= riday, May 31, 2013 1:26 PM=0ASubject: [LML] IV P flying=0A=0A=0AThis will = probably stir some controversy but I think it is important to stay safer in= a IV.=0A=0AThere is recent discussion about AOA and vortex generators with= the IV and I will leave that to owners preferences. I believe the real iss= ue with the IV is the rapidly increasing sink rate below 95 knots. Like all= really high performance aircraft, slowing results in very significant powe= r off sink rates well above stall. The high wing loading inherent in these = aircraft is the reason for the speed/efficiency and the trade off is the si= nk. For pilots not used to this class of aircraft when slow, pulling back h= oping to climb results in a very unfamiliar rapid loss of speed with no cha= nge in descent rate. Unless back pressure is relaxed quickly the remaining = speed above stall dissipates very quickly. Once the departure comes, adding= power just aggravates the spin.=0A=0AThe main thought is to stay above 100= knots so as to stay high enough on the speed curve to give a normal feel/r= esult to the controls. The recommended 120 knots in the pattern and 100 kno= ts over the fence meets this demand. If you have an AOA in your IV and can = get it to blow the whistle at 95 knots I suggest you do so.=0A=0AThose who = would add vortex generators or an AOA so they can purposely operate the IV = near stall are venturing into a potentially very dark place with little to = be gained. Most aircraft in this class are turbines/jets and the operating = manuals don't allow stalls or very slow flight.=0A=0AJack Morgan=0A--=0AFor= archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html --1628430994-1703802127-1370021979=:82343 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well said Jack. High s= ink rates are only cured with high power and or pointing the nose DOWN.&nbs= p;
 
Charlie K.
 
See me on the web at
 

From: Jack Morgan <jmorgan1023@comcast= .net>
To: lml@lancair= online.net
Sent: Friday= , May 31, 2013 1:26 PM
Subject: [LML] IV P flying

This will probably stir some controversy b= ut I think it is important to stay safer in a IV.

There is recent di= scussion about AOA and vortex generators with the IV and I will leave that = to owners preferences. I believe the real issue with the IV is the rapidly = increasing sink rate below 95 knots. Like all really high performance aircr= aft, slowing results in very significant power off sink rates well above st= all. The high wing loading inherent in these aircraft is the reason for the= speed/efficiency and the trade off is the sink. For pilots not used to thi= s class of aircraft when slow, pulling back hoping to climb results in a ve= ry unfamiliar rapid loss of speed with no change in descent rate. Unless ba= ck pressure is relaxed quickly the remaining speed above stall dissipates v= ery quickly. Once the departure comes, adding power just aggravates the spi= n.

The main thought is to stay above 100 knots so as to stay high enough on the speed curve to give a normal feel/result to the control= s. The recommended 120 knots in the pattern and 100 knots over the fence me= ets this demand. If you have an AOA in your IV and can get it to blow the w= histle at 95 knots I suggest you do so.

Those who would add vortex g= enerators or an AOA so they can purposely operate the IV near stall are ven= turing into a potentially very dark place with little to be gained. Most ai= rcraft in this class are turbines/jets and the operating manuals don't allo= w stalls or very slow flight.

Jack Morgan
--
For archives and = unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html
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