X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from omr-d06.mx.aol.com ([205.188.109.203] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.5) with ESMTP id 6298428 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 30 May 2013 13:10:44 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.109.203; envelope-from=Sky2high@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-da06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-da06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.142]) by omr-d06.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 466B770004136 for ; Thu, 30 May 2013 13:10:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-mta001c.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-mta001.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.234.129]) by mtaomg-da06.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 068DFE000081 for ; Thu, 30 May 2013 13:10:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Sky2high@aol.com Full-name: Sky2high Message-ID: <583b1.1562d7c1.3ed8e1f0@aol.com> Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 13:10:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Lancair Aerobatics To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_583b1.1562d7c1.3ed8e1f0_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.6 sub 168 X-Originating-IP: [67.175.156.123] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1369933809; bh=KQwTZf+xgfuPk949WzQt7UykgU26/JqhKO8RTtdsEY0=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=mEJ/rR1TIUnL3HBFxhNjU3e6JHFraJ9SwjONp3FYQ2yFHCrYGpO0C7eX4UYgLhCG6 z1nE0r325zqe9OJdCvY3wld2QRcKzooD8O+ofts2egwZqdWaPNhx/vT048HM8h33r0 9Ti2vKhYSOgJDH5v46bsEZ5q+3erbEfaZsv2WwUY= X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:489203136:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d338e51a787f16478 --part1_583b1.1562d7c1.3ed8e1f0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit vortex generator For example: http://www.hallwindmeter.com/vortex.php Grayhawk In a message dated 5/30/2013 11:58:51 A.M. Central Daylight Time, rosel_george@yahoo.com writes: What is a "VG" ?? George F. Rosel (cell) 303-995-5501 also... "The Lodge at Timberline", Copper Mtn., Colorado ... a true "ski-in/ski-out" Luxury Home for RENT ... Click here to view my webpage: http://www.vrbo.com/254739 ____________________________________ From: PETER WILLIAMS To: lml@lancaironline.net Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 6:20 AM Subject: [LML] Re: Lancair Aerobatics hi there Boeing built several LNC4, but they enlarged the horizontal surface and redesigned the airfoil maybe they have some expertise in aircraft design Installed an AOA in my 4P and still learning it. Installed VG on the 4P and had a 7-8 knot reduction in stall speed; highly recommend it to everyone. rediculoudly cheap. $289.00 with a template and shipping. peter ____________________________________ To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 12:29:35 -0400 From: cwfmd@yahoo.com Subject: [LML] Re: Lancair Aerobatics Does anyone expect my mention of 'How about watching your AOAs! to avoid stall-departures (and subsequent) spins. ?? Good Point Terrence, I accidentally left that out, focusing on the SD instead... I don't like to fly a Lancair unless it has AOA installed. But I'm an old Navy test Pilot. Good comments both about AOA awareness(orientation?) and control authority. I suspect the IV-P reduced control authority, to paraphrase Bert, in the tail, "there is not enough" surface. We have an integrated systems project in our university course, speculating on how we could "fix" the IV-P. Suppose you had a fly by wire control interface. Could the mishap scenarios be over come by limiting certain control inputs? For example commanding too much angle of attack might limit back stick range or even add power and optimal climb if low altitude? What if instant antispin control override kicks in, like the stick pusher in the F-104 or the Eclipse? What might the tradeoff be in aerodynamic improvements vs fly by wire? The problem is flight testing, because the fleet is not large enough to support this development and testing. We used to attack the identified problem, such as the F-14 flat spin(see TopGun movie) or the SD issue in the F-16 "lawn dart" , as follows: 1. Identify the problem, 2. educate the pilots, 3. modify the training (I bagged lots of T-2 flt time, as a SPin/OutaControl flt instructor), 4. modify the software or display/control etc, but only lastly , 5.modify the hardware changing the airframe. These are, in sequence of expenses, which increase(exponentially), with each level. With the Lancair, we are always in the first 2 or 3 levels, because of funding, it is hard to reach farther. The greatest challenge is to reach those new Lancair enthusiasts, who have not yet been introduced to 1, 2 , & 3 ! --part1_583b1.1562d7c1.3ed8e1f0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
vortex generator
 
For example: http://www.hallwindmeter.c= om/vortex.php
 
Grayhawk
 
In a message dated 5/30/2013 11:58:51 A.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 rosel_george@yahoo.com writes:
= What=20 is a "VG" ??



 
George F. Rosel

(c= ell)=20 303-995-5501

al= so...
"The L= odge at=20 Timberline", Copper Mtn., Colorado ... a true "ski-in/ski-out" Lux= ury=20 Home for RENT
 ... Click= here=20 to view my webpage: http://www.vrbo.com/254739


From:=20 PETER WILLIAMS <peterpawaviation@hotmail.com>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
<= SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 6:20= =20 AM
Subject: [LML] Re: = Lancair=20 Aerobatics

hi there
Boein= g=20 built several LNC4, but they enlarged the horizontal surface and redesigned the airfoil
 = =20          maybe they have some expertise in aircraft=20 design
Installed an AOA in my 4P and still learning it. Installed VG o= n the=20 4P and had a 7-8 knot reduction in stall speed; highly recommend it to everyone. redic= uloudly cheap. $289.00 with a temp= late and=20 shipping.

peter

To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 12:29:35 -0400
Fro= m:=20 cwfmd@yahoo.com
Subject: [LML] Re: Lancair Aerobatics

Does anyone expect my mention of=20
 'How about watching your AOAs! to avoid stall-departures= (and=20 subsequent) spins. ??

Good Point Terrence, I accidentally left that out,= =20 focusing on the SD instead...
 I don't like to fly a=20 Lancair unless it has AOA installed. But I'm an old Na= vy=20 test Pilot. Good comments both about AOA awareness(orientation?) an= d=20 control authority. I suspect the IV-P reduced control authority, to= =20 paraphrase Bert, in the tail, "there is not enough" surface.
&nb= sp;=20 We have an integrated systems project in our university course,=20 speculating on how we could "fix" the IV-P. Suppose you had a fly b= y=20 wire control interface. Could the mishap scenarios be over come by= =20 limiting certain control inputs? For example commanding too much an= gle=20 of attack might limit back stick range or even add power and optima= l=20 climb if low altitude?
 What if instant antispin control=20 override kicks in, like the stick pusher in the F-104 or the Eclips= e?=20 What might the tradeoff be in aerodynamic improvements vs fly by wi= re?=20 The problem is flight testing, because the fleet is not large enoug= h to=20 support this development and testing.
  We used to attack t= he=20 identified problem, such as the F-14 flat spin(see TopGun movie) or= the=20 SD issue in the F-16 "lawn dart" , as follows:
1. Identify the= =20 problem,
2. educate the pilots,
3. modify the training (I b= agged=20 lots of T-2 flt time, as a SPin/OutaControl flt instructor),
4.= =20 modify the software or display/control etc,   but only la= stly=20 ,
5.modify the hardware changing the airframe.
 These ar= e, in=20 sequence of expenses, which increase(exponentially), with each=20 level.  With the Lancair, we are always in the first 2 or 3 le= vels,=20 because of funding, it is hard to reach farther.  The greatest= =20 challenge is to reach those new Lancair enthusiasts, who have not y= et=20 been introduced to 1, 2 , & 3 =20 !


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