X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-Junk-Score: 2 [X] X-SpamCatcher-Score: 2 [X] Return-Path: Received: from mail-ob0-f173.google.com ([209.85.214.173] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.5) with ESMTPS id 6298297 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 30 May 2013 12:07:25 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.214.173; envelope-from=billhogarty@gmail.com Received: by mail-ob0-f173.google.com with SMTP id wc20so950562obb.4 for ; Thu, 30 May 2013 09:06:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=funo4gitoqaQorHJDdl/oB68K3SrOQPQMEeJz26/E0o=; b=KDwevbBC+9N8tw0IhtPEXYW9Th5ZTddjN9BRU0b7oZYOeKrrmKkjGxnZb8loIzE3oI CQtqQM8RdSaJvWOkkV7YqlzjtiyP7Pz+TBAtQkak/Owt3kfFZnJET7CmLR3s7ngUqZrX Oiv/qgAHnps0AE5P3lwSMdTIbw2M/uSZdY8S15cpybHTPRXTh8GCjarN1/pWNJyxouud JLLnIPdOWWvQr0V8Ujh0b6Yeni4knh2mgS0NB+/BLxxLk9373eyInDYIZ9tLpc00dbv1 jpqRBbbfUp8QuMcJ7986QEJRv4svE5XW7n3a3Y2q6AedS1KsA3XUfSJOHGgbi5HZWnB3 Qprg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.94.113 with SMTP id db17mr4352354oeb.62.1369930006451; Thu, 30 May 2013 09:06:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.130.132 with HTTP; Thu, 30 May 2013 09:06:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 09:06:46 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Lancair Aerobatics From: "William A. Hogarty" To: Lancair Mailing List , peterpawaviation@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e011777e967290304ddf1af32 --089e011777e967290304ddf1af32 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Peter: First I've heard of VG installed on a IV-P. Can you give us some details on source. Details on the installation and mabe a photo. Thanks,Bill Hogarty On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 5:20 AM, PETER WILLIAMS < peterpawaviation@hotmail.com> wrote: > hi there > Boeing built several LNC4, but they enlarged the horizontal surface and > redesigned the airfoil > maybe they have some expertise in aircraft design > Installed an AOA in my 4P and still learning it. Installed VG on the 4P > and had a 7-8 knot reduction in stall speed; highly recommend it to > everyone. rediculoudly cheap. $289.00 with a template and shipping. > > peter > > ------------------------------ > To: lml@lancaironline.net > Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 12:29:35 -0400 > From: cwfmd@yahoo.com > Subject: [LML] Re: Lancair Aerobatics > > Does anyone expect my mention of > 'How about watching your AOAs! to avoid stall-departures (and subsequent) > spins. ?? > > Good Point Terrence, I accidentally left that out, focusing on the SD > instead... > I don't like to fly a Lancair unless it has AOA installed. But I'm an > old Navy test Pilot. Good comments both about AOA awareness(orientation?) > and control authority. I suspect the IV-P reduced control authority, to > paraphrase Bert, in the tail, "there is not enough" surface. > We have an integrated systems project in our university course, > speculating on how we could "fix" the IV-P. Suppose you had a fly by wire > control interface. Could the mishap scenarios be over come by limiting > certain control inputs? For example commanding too much angle of attack > might limit back stick range or even add power and optimal climb if low > altitude? > What if instant antispin control override kicks in, like the stick pusher > in the F-104 or the Eclipse? What might the tradeoff be in aerodynamic > improvements vs fly by wire? The problem is flight testing, because the > fleet is not large enough to support this development and testing. > We used to attack the identified problem, such as the F-14 flat spin(see > TopGun movie) or the SD issue in the F-16 "lawn dart" , as follows: > 1. Identify the problem, > 2. educate the pilots, > 3. modify the training (I bagged lots of T-2 flt time, as a > SPin/OutaControl flt instructor), > 4. modify the software or display/control etc, but only lastly , > 5.modify the hardware changing the airframe. > These are, in sequence of expenses, which increase(exponentially), with > each level. With the Lancair, we are always in the first 2 or 3 levels, > because of funding, it is hard to reach farther. The greatest challenge is > to reach those new Lancair enthusiasts, who have not yet been introduced to > 1, 2 , & 3 ! > --089e011777e967290304ddf1af32 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Peter:
=A0
First I've heard o= f VG installed on a IV-P.=A0 Can you give us some details on source.=A0 Det= ails on the installation and mabe a photo.
=A0
Thanks,B= ill Hogarty


On Thu,= May 30, 2013 at 5:20 AM, PETER WILLIAMS <peterpawaviation@hotm= ail.com> wrote:
hi there
Boeing built several LNC4, but they enlarged the horizontal surface and redesigned the airfoil
=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0= =A0 =A0maybe they have some expertise in aircraft design
Installed an AOA in my 4P and still learning it. Installed VG on the 4P and had a 7-8 knot reduction in stall speed; highly r= ecommend it to everyone.=20 rediculoudly cheap. $289.00 with a te= mplate and shipping.

peter

To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: W= ed, 29 May 2013 12:29:35 -0400
From: cwfmd@yahoo.com<= /a>
Subject: [LML] Re: Lancair Aerobatics

Does anyone expect my mention of
=A0'How about watching your AOAs! = to avoid stall-departures (and subsequent) spins. ??

Go= od Point Terrence, I accidentally left that out, focusing on the SD instead= ...
=A0I don't like to fly a Lancair unless it has AOA install= ed. But I'm an old Navy test Pilot. Good comments both about AOA awaren= ess(orientation?) and control authority. I suspect the IV-P reduced control= authority, to paraphrase Bert, in the tail, "there is not enough"= ; surface.
=A0 We have an integrated systems project in our university course, specula= ting on how we could "fix" the IV-P. Suppose you had a fly by wir= e control interface. Could the mishap scenarios be over come by limiting ce= rtain control inputs? For example commanding too much angle of attack might= limit back stick range or even add power and optimal climb if low altitude?
=A0What if instant antispin control over= ride kicks in, like the stick pusher in the F-104 or the Eclipse? What migh= t the tradeoff be in aerodynamic improvements vs fly by wire? The problem i= s flight testing, because the fleet is not large enough to support this dev= elopment and testing.
=A0 We used to attack the identified problem, such as the F-14 flat spin(se= e TopGun movie) or the SD issue in the F-16 "lawn dart" , as foll= ows:
1. Identify the problem,
2. educate the pilots,
3. modify t= he training (I bagged lots of T-2 flt time, as a SPin/OutaControl flt instr= uctor),
4. modify the software or display/control etc,=A0=A0 but only lastly ,
5= .modify the hardware changing the airframe.
=A0These are, in sequence of= expenses, which increase(exponentially), with each level.=A0 With the Lanc= air, we are always in the first 2 or 3 levels, because of funding, it is ha= rd to reach farther.=A0 The greatest challenge is to reach those new Lancair enthusias= ts, who have not yet been introduced to 1, 2 , & 3=A0 !

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