X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 08:27:03 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([71.74.56.122] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.2) with ESMTP id 6150145 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 26 Mar 2013 23:51:23 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=71.74.56.122; envelope-from=kkellner1@new.rr.com X-Original-Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=UN5f7Vjy c=1 sm=0 a=obLwkm3ISv3u5N1fLH+lKQ==:17 a=Iy1csxky15oA:10 a=05ChyHeVI94A:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=l-gFdSxyLacA:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=2pg1mtO0VTFQNwsuzy8A:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=eLtm9acouoiPpyfs:21 a=D3ZakcMvdorNww29:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=yMhMjlubAAAA:8 a=aiMX60jYAAAA:8 a=lP1kBz3BcUXaonJJzxAA:9 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=Q2UVl1ZxuYYA:10 a=AVXiRbXn3KweIf9h:21 a=o-akHXCatczE9SS7:21 a=MRoIf0ZYGpq8x0fU:21 a=obLwkm3ISv3u5N1fLH+lKQ==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Authenticated-User: X-Originating-IP: 70.92.78.168 Received: from [70.92.78.168] ([70.92.78.168:3514] helo=D4SSJS91) by hrndva-oedge04.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 90/8C-20480-89C62515; Wed, 27 Mar 2013 03:50:48 +0000 X-Original-Message-ID: <90E453EA04094A7DBDC8A868B06BCF8A@D4SSJS91> From: "Ken" X-Original-To: , "Joe Trepicone" References: Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Aileron balancing X-Original-Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 22:50:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02DA_01CE2A74.5B659540" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_02DA_01CE2A74.5B659540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Joe, I might be able to save you some of the effort I went through rigging = the ailerons. I have a 4P with winglets. On my early flights the stick = force in roll was very heavy. My neutral aileron position was to low. = Per the tech help at Lancair, Ross I think, I re-rigged to make the = outboard trailing edge of the aileron even with the trailing edge of the = winglet. By doing that, the inboard trailing edge of the ailerons were = slightly above the trailing edge of the flaps in the retracted position. = The bottom of ailerons are even with top of the flaps. That lightened = the stick forces considerably. Ken Kellner IV-P 14LK=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Joe Trepicone=20 To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 9:11 AM Subject: RE: [LML] Re: Aileron balancing Wade, I called Lancair and asked how I should determine neutral = aileron position. They said neutral is determined from the wing tip or = winglet=E2=80=A6. Out board in. They also said the top of the flap may = or may not be exactly neutral. Frankly, I thought that the top of the = flap, aileron and winglet should all be at the same level but it appears = =E2=80=93in my case- there is about an 1/8=E2=80=9D or so discrepancy = between the top flap and top of neutral aileron. Also the full travel = of the aileron was to be 20 degrees down and 14 degrees up as indicated = in the build manual Figure 8:D:6. What I thought was going to be a = simple process turned out to be quite difficult. Joe Trepicone From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = Bill Wade Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 6:02 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: Aileron balancing =20 =20 =20 I did a reality check today and in my situation the Lancair = orientation that Joe pictured worked best. Like others I had tried = flipping the weight 180 degrees (flat side on the aileron tab) because = it seemed logical that the mass should be as far forward as possible. It = just didn=E2=80=99t work for me, and the pictures show why. =20 The two photos show the weight clearance near the inboard hinge, RH = wing. It wasn=E2=80=99t easy to take the pictures and the quality = isn=E2=80=99t great but the first one shows that there=E2=80=99s about = 1/16=E2=80=9D clearance at full UP travel, 20 degrees. What shows is the = carbon tab (with the screw head). The weight surface is parallel to the = pocket interior. If the weight was flipped over or on the bottom of the = tab there wouldn=E2=80=99t be nearly enough travel. The second is harder = to make out but I=E2=80=99d say there=E2=80=99s 1/8=E2=80=9D+ clearance, = and you can see the tab/ weight relationship better. The aileron there = is at 16 degrees DN, 2 degrees more than required. The manual = doesn=E2=80=99t specify how to align the aileron, at least as far as I = could find, so I decided to set neutral centered on the flap. If others = chose to set the aileron top flush with the top of the flap, that would = bias the travel downward, gaining more clearance in the UP direction and = using some of the extra clearance I have downward. Maybe that=E2=80=99s = why I seem to differ from other posters. How did others set their = neutral position? =20 Perhaps the best way to start would be to try different weight = positions, see what the travel is and look into the pocket to get an = idea where and how the weight is hitting. Then choose the way that looks = best and go for it. Just use the same holes in the aileron tab- unused = holes in the weight can easily be filled with solder. -Bill Wade ------=_NextPart_000_02DA_01CE2A74.5B659540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BF
Joe,
 
I might be able to save you some of the effort I went through = rigging the=20 ailerons.  I have a 4P with winglets.  On my early flights the = stick=20 force in roll was very heavy.  My neutral aileron position was to=20 low.  Per the tech help at Lancair, Ross I think, I re-rigged to = make the=20 outboard trailing edge of the aileron even with the trailing edge = of the=20 winglet.  By doing that, the inboard trailing edge of the = ailerons were slightly above the trailing edge of the flaps in the = retracted=20 position.  The bottom of ailerons are even with top of = the=20 flaps.  That lightened the stick forces considerably.
 
Ken Kellner
IV-P  14LK 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Joe=20 Trepicone
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 = 9:11=20 AM
Subject: RE: [LML] Re: Aileron=20 balancing

Wade,  I = called Lancair=20 and asked how I should determine neutral aileron position.  They = said=20 neutral is determined from the wing tip or winglet=E2=80=A6. Out board = in.=20   They also said the top of the flap may or may not be = exactly=20 neutral.  Frankly, I thought that the top of the flap, aileron = and=20 winglet should all be at the same level but it appears =E2=80=93in my = case- there is=20 about an 1/8=E2=80=9D or so discrepancy between the top flap and top = of neutral=20 aileron.  Also the full travel of the aileron was to be 20 = degrees down=20 and 14 degrees up as indicated in the build manual Figure 8:D:6.  = What I=20 thought was going to be a simple process turned out to be quite=20 difficult.  Joe Trepicone

From: Lancair = Mailing=20 List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill=20 Wade
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 6:02 PM
To:=20 lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: Aileron=20 balancing

 

 

 

  =20 I did a reality check today and in my situation the Lancair = orientation that=20 Joe pictured worked best. Like others I had tried flipping the weight = 180=20 degrees (flat side on the aileron tab) because it seemed logical that = the mass=20 should be as far forward as possible. It just didn=E2=80=99t work for = me, and the=20 pictures show why.

 

The=20 two photos show the weight clearance near the inboard hinge, RH wing. = It=20 wasn=E2=80=99t easy to take the pictures and the quality isn=E2=80=99t = great but the first one=20 shows that there=E2=80=99s about 1/16=E2=80=9D clearance at full UP = travel, 20 degrees. What=20 shows is the carbon tab (with the screw head). The weight surface is = parallel=20 to the pocket interior. If the weight was flipped over or on the = bottom of the=20 tab there wouldn=E2=80=99t be nearly enough travel. The second is = harder to make out=20 but I=E2=80=99d say there=E2=80=99s 1/8=E2=80=9D+ clearance, and you = can see the tab/ weight=20 relationship better. The aileron there is at 16 degrees DN, 2 degrees = more=20 than required. The manual doesn=E2=80=99t specify how to align the = aileron, at least=20 as far as I could find, so I decided to set neutral centered on the = flap. If=20 others chose to set the aileron top flush with the top of the flap, = that would=20 bias the travel downward, gaining more clearance in the UP direction = and using=20 some of the extra clearance I have downward. Maybe that=E2=80=99s why = I seem to differ=20 from other posters. How did others set their neutral = position?

 

 =20 Perhaps the best way to start would be to try different weight = positions, see=20 what the travel is and look into the pocket to get an idea where and = how the=20 weight is hitting. Then choose the way that looks best and go for it. = Just use=20 the same holes in the aileron tab- unused holes in the weight can = easily be=20 filled with solder.  -Bill Wade

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