Mailing List lml@lancaironline.net Message #63163
From: Adam Molny <Adam@ValidationPartners.com>
Sender: <marv@lancaironline.net>
Subject: RE: New Legacy Project -- oxygen [was speed brakes]
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 11:59:47 -0400
To: <lml@lancaironline.net>

Hi James –

 

First, I forgot to say congratulations on you new project! I put all my oxygen installation photos in a web album here:

https://picasaweb.google.com/102798913343718743387/OxygenSystem2011_03

 

I oriented the band clamps so I could tighten and loosen them through the two access panels. You can try it yourself by setting the wing stub skin in place and reaching in through the pitot and foot well access panels. I used ClickBond studs to mount the band clamps. I put the pitot tube, landing lights, and strobe light power supply on the right side to free up space and reduce the amount of plumbing around the oxygen tank.

 

Mountain High’s carbon fiber tank is somewhat bulky because of its increased wall thickness so I went with an aluminum tank. I chose the biggest one that would fit the space and still be removable through the access panel in the pilot’s footwell (MH p/n AL-415). You can see from the photos that I had to make cutouts in the top and bottom of the trapezoidal opening for clearance. The next bigger tank (AL-682) would definitely fit in the wing stub, but you would have to cut a hole in the outboard rib of the wing stub (and pull the left wing) to remove it. Of course, you would go with a larger tank for more duration and fewer fillups. I found Mountain High’s duration chart to be a bit optimistic. I got about 8 hours out of a full tank (1800psi) with two people on board while crossing the Rockies. Your mileage may vary.

 

Although you didn’t ask me, here’s some more advice. I skipped the air conditioning system because of the weight, complexity, and expense. I installed the Koger sunshade and simply crack the canopy open after landing to get some fresh air. As Valin Thorne said, you don’t need A/C unless you live in a very hot climate.

 

The other thing I didn’t mention is that shock cooling is a myth. Once an engine is broken in there is plenty of clearance between the piston and cylinder. There are lots of causes for piston scuffing but shock cooling isn’t one of them. That makes engine management much easier on descent and eliminates the need for speed brakes. Climbout is another story. It very is easy to damage your engine at high power with the wrong mixture setting. When departing Sedona a few weeks ago, I leaned the mixture for takeoff at Sedona’s 5000’ elevation. By the time I glanced at my engine gauges 60 seconds after takeoff, the CHTs were 460deg! I went to full rich and reduced power and the temperatures came down within a minute or so. Bottom line: run ROP or LOP but never at peak EGT. And yes, I’ll be doing an oil analysis at my next oil change.

 

Best of luck with your new project,

Adam Molny

N181AM


From: James Seilbach [mailto:james@seilbach.com]
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 12:52 PM
To: Clark Baker
Cc: Charles Brown; Adam Molny
Subject: Re: New Legacy Project -- speed brakes

 

Thanks guys for the tips.  I am still on the fence I guess.   I had them on my Malibu which made the decents so much easier because I could leave in the engine power, slowly pulling it back and still decend nice and quickly.   It seems like the extra fuel on the Legacy though would be nice to have.

 

Adam, I found a picture and some info on your oxygen installation in the front of the wing center section.   That looks like a great location for oxygen.   Has it worked well?  Did you lock in the the clamps somehow?  It seems like those access panels are pretty small and it could be difficult to refasten them if they came loose.   Also, you mentioned that you would have gone with a larger tank?   Would love to hear any additional information you have in regards to that installation.

 

Thanks again!

 

James Seilbach

970-691-9305

 

 

On Oct 14, 2012, at 9:29 AM, Clark Baker <bakercdb@gmail.com> wrote:


I do Not have speed brakes. Pete Zaccagnino recommended not getting them- as you can do without fine.  

They are cool and fun to play with, but I haven't missed not having them.  Weight, complexity, and cost that I could do without, esp since I am not turbocharged.

 

Ps, if you are ordering your kit, you can ask the factory to Not put in the pockets for the speed brakes and you will get a little extra fuel room (or you can cut them out if you have them).

 

 

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 2:15 PM, Charles Brown <browncc1@verizon.net> wrote:

James,

Best reason for speed brakes I can think of is to protect the engine from shock cooling while accommodating ATC on slam-dunk clearances (or if you've planned poorly).  No doubt, they *are* handy, but you can use Flaps 10 at 170 kias, and gear at 140 kias.  So, unless you really want to maintain a high airspeed and high power setting while descending, it's fairly easy to do without.  Whereas on a WunderGlider like a Mooney (and I suspect Malibu must be similar), you really need to kill the L/D some other way.  I suspect there's also a "cool, trick, fighter-like" mentality with some of the folks, and then I'm sure some folks are thinking that resale will be better with a completely "stock" airplane.

If my airplane were turbocharged, I'd probably go for speed brakes.  I'm guessing that the Malibu taught you the turbocharging lesson.

Two of my most avid correspondents who obviously put some thought into their flying are copied on this.  Being brain dead, I've forgotten who's got what but I seem to recall that either Clark or Adam went without speed brakes too and might care to comment.

Charley

PS -- I got 74.5 gallons usable fuel; I understand that 67 is standard but don't know what people are actually getting with speed brakes.  Dallas to Orange County non-stop with 1.5 hours left.  A bladder challenge if ever there was one.


On Oct 14, 2012, at 12:24 AM, James Seilbach wrote:

Another question-

Most of the Legacys I have seen or read about have speed brakes installed.   From what you and the CAFE report at saying, the additional fuel is far more beneficial than the speed brakes.  Why do you think so many people choose the speed takes?

-----------------------------
James Seilbach
james@seilbach.com
970-691-9305
-----------------------------



On Oct 14, 2012, at 12:04 AM, James Seilbach wrote:

I really appreciate your insights.

My Twinstar was actually the first airplane I owned, I have since owned a Cirrus, a Malibu, and a Turboprop Meridian.  None of these had approach speeds like the Legacy, but I am religious about type specific and recurrent training.   I plan to do the same for the Legacy.   I have a multi commercial instrument rating with about 1000 hours total time.  I think the Legacy will definitely be different and very fun to fly.

Thanks again for your email,

-----------------------------
James Seilbach
james@seilbach.com
970-691-9305
-----------------------------



 

--
Clark Baker

mobile: +44 7557 804 630

bakercdb@gmail.com

 

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