X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2012 18:15:44 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imr-da04.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.146] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0c1) with ESMTP id 5797498 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 07 Oct 2012 15:32:55 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.105.146; envelope-from=n5276j@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-mb06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-mb06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.77]) by imr-da04.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id q97JWA2Y024174 for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2012 15:32:10 -0400 Received: from core-mld001a.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-mld001.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.122.79]) by mtaomg-mb06.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 5C0D8E000085 for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2012 15:32:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] Piston oil cooling jets X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User MIME-Version: 1.0 From: steve Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CF72D99428C035_1ABC_3FC9D_webmail-d055.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 37058-STANDARD Received: from 70.196.192.170 by webmail-d055.sysops.aol.com (205.188.91.204) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sun, 07 Oct 2012 15:32:10 -0400 X-Original-Message-Id: <8CF72D9941CD932-1ABC-11D01@webmail-d055.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: [70.196.192.170] X-Original-Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2012 15:32:10 -0400 (EDT) x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:373355584:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d294d5071d8ba5689 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----------MB_8CF72D99428C035_1ABC_3FC9D_webmail-d055.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Tom, I have a 360 straight valve with 10:1 pistons,fuel injected with a slightly= bigger oil cooler then normal. I increased my inlet air to four inches and= a stock RV baffling system sealed tight.My exit air is 3"x 17. If not care= ful (too lean) on hot days I can go over 400 on takeoff/climb out on a hot = day. However if I level off/ reduce power/rpm I can stop the CHTS from goi= ng over 400, Once cooled down (stabilized) from the takeoff I can resume f= ull power/climb and manage the temps just fine. I never run my engine over = 400 chts. =20 I recently ran a race in Pogosa Springs Co. it was 150 miles. I ran wide o= pen and 2650rpms, I controlled the chts with fuel and never went over 390. = The oil peaked at 210, I averaged 254 mph. I do not have ney nossils nor a = Plenum just a tight stock RV baffling system. I expect lower CHTS once I bu= ild a nose gear door for the bottom cowl opening that has to be upsetting t= he exit air from the strut opening. I also see a plenum in the future as I = clean-up cooling drag that might allow me to close down inlet and exit air.= But for now My cooling is fine=20 =20 Lycon warns not to go over 400 for break-in. Doing so puts you at great ris= k of glazing the cylinders and annealing the rings, which will cause blow-b= y, burning oil. Thus causing the cylinders to run hotter. This is what I wo= uld suspect is your results. =20 Splitting the case and installing Ney nossils is not the answer in my opion= . If your baffling system is correctly done with 4" inlets and adequate exi= t air you should not have a problem, just control the heat on climb out,if = you install ney nossils it may help but its the wrong band-aid at a high pr= ice. =20 It sounds to me that you will need to re-ring and hone the cylinders and tr= y the break-in again. Fall is here and cooler outside temps will aid in the= break-in just remember do not go over 400 on the break-in.=20 steve alderman 25SA 360 =20 -----Original Message----- From: N20087 To: lml Sent: Sun, Oct 7, 2012 10:34 am Subject: [LML] Piston oil cooling jets > Folks This is addressed to the hard core engine experts on the forum. I would lo= ve=20 our feedback on this=20 I am considering having my io360 crankcase modified so that I can install p= iston=20 ooling jets which are standard in 200hp engines. The reason being, I have = had=20 o take aircraft out of service twice, once at 80 hrs and now at 160 due to= =20 ousy break-in and high CHTs. I have done all the obvious stuff such as plen= um,=20 iming, plugs, flowed the fuel servo to the rich side, baffles etc.. I am=20 unning 9:1 eci cerminil cylinders and they will hit 430 on climb out. They= =20 ent to 450 twice in the initial break-in. They will run 370 in 75% cruise a= nd=20 40 lop All this aside, the pistons at 80 hrs (both times) were coated in dark varn= ish=20 nder the crown and the top of the crowns were heavily carbonized from oil= =20 lowback I am just getting tired of it and don't want to pul the engine apart again= =20 nytime soon after this downturn So,,,I am wondering if anybody has any experience or data concerning the co= oling=20 enefits of the piston oil nozzles. Ie is it 5 degrees or 20+ Also, I am debating whether to split the crankcase myself or take the close= d=20 ase (jugs and every accessory removed) with con rods still attached to the= =20 ocal shop and have them split the case, do the machining and reassemble. T= he=20 hop is very very reputable but of course the cost will be higher if I get t= hem=20 o do the breakdown and reassembly=20 As another cooling remediation measure I was thinking of opening up the cow= l=20 nlets to 4 inches but a little reluctant due to the increased drag and limi= ted=20 enefit. I added an electric cowl flap by the way and achieved only a 2 deg= ree=20 HT improvement in climb at 130 knots Go figure! Again, any feedback on my plan here would appreciated=20 Thanks in advance=20 Tom=20 -- or archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html ----------MB_8CF72D99428C035_1ABC_3FC9D_webmail-d055.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Tom,
 
I have a 360 straight valve with 10:1 pistons,fuel injected with a sli= ghtly bigger oil cooler then normal. I increased my inlet air to four inche= s and a stock RV baffling system sealed tight.My exit air is 3"x = 17. If not careful (too lean) on hot days I can go over 400 on ta= keoff/climb out on a hot day. However if I level off/ reduce power/rpm=   I can stop the CHTS from going over 400, Once  cooled down (sta= bilized) from the takeoff I can resume full power/climb and manage the= temps just fine. I never run my engine over 400 chts.
 
 I recently ran a race in Pogosa Springs Co. it was 150 miles. I = ran wide open and 2650rpms, I controlled the chts with fuel and never went = over 390. The oil peaked at 210, I averaged 254 mph. I do not have ney noss= ils nor a Plenum just a tight stock RV baffling system. I expect = lower CHTS once I build a nose gear door for the bottom cowl opening that h= as to be upsetting the exit air from the strut opening. I also see a plenum= in the future as I clean-up cooling drag that might allow me to close= down inlet and exit air. But for now My cooling is fine
 
Lycon warns not to go over 400 for break-in. Doing so puts you at grea= t risk of glazing the cylinders and annealing the rings, which will ca= use blow-by, burning oil. Thus causing the cylinders to run hotter. This is= what I would suspect is your results.
 
Splitting the case and installing Ney nossils is not the answer in my = opion. If your baffling system is correctly done with 4" inlets and adequat= e exit air you should not have a problem, just control the heat on climb ou= t,if you install ney nossils it may help but its the wrong band-aid at= a high price.
 
It sounds to me that you will need to re-ring and hone the cylinders a= nd try the break-in again. Fall is here and cooler outside temps will aid i= n the break-in just remember do not go over 400 on the break-in.
 
 
 
steve alderman   25SA   360



 
= -----Original Message-----
From: N20087 <n20087@yahoo.com>
To: lml <lml@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sun, Oct 7, 2012 10:34 am
Subject: [LML] Piston oil cooling jets

> F=
olks

This is addressed to the hard core engine experts on the forum.  I would lo=
ve=20
your feedback on this=20

I am considering having my io360 crankcase modified so that I can install p=
iston=20
cooling jets which are standard in 200hp engines.  The reason being, I have=
 had=20
to take aircraft out of service twice, once at 80 hrs and now at 160 due to=
=20
lousy break-in and high CHTs. I have done all the obvious stuff such as ple=
num,=20
timing, plugs, flowed the fuel servo to the rich side, baffles etc.. I am=
=20
running 9:1 eci cerminil cylinders and they will hit 430 on climb out.  The=
y=20
went to 450 twice in the initial break-in. They will run 370 in 75% cruise =
and=20
340 lop

All this aside, the pistons at 80 hrs (both times) were coated in dark varn=
ish=20
under the crown and the top of the crowns were heavily carbonized from oil=
=20
blowback

I am just getting tired of it and don't want to pul the engine apart again=
=20
anytime soon after this downturn

So,,,I am wondering if anybody has any experience or data concerning the co=
oling=20
benefits of the piston oil nozzles.  Ie is it 5 degrees or 20+

Also, I am debating whether to split the crankcase myself or take the close=
d=20
case (jugs and every accessory removed) with con rods still attached to the=
=20
local shop and have them split the case, do the machining and reassemble.  =
The=20
shop is very very reputable but of course the cost will be higher if I get =
them=20
to do the breakdown and reassembly=20

As another cooling remediation measure I was thinking of opening up the cow=
l=20
inlets to 4 inches but a little reluctant due to the increased drag and lim=
ited=20
benefit.  I added an electric cowl flap by the way and achieved only a 2 de=
gree=20
CHT improvement in climb at 130 knots Go figure!

Again, any feedback on my plan here would appreciated=20

Thanks in advance=20

Tom=20



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