Mailing List lml@lancaironline.net Message #62926
From: Frederick Moreno <frederickmoreno@bigpond.com>
Sender: <marv@lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Thermal influence on Hydraulic Pressure
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 23:16:46 -0400
To: <lml@lancaironline.net>
 
Fred,
This is one reason we have the hydraulic accumulator on the IV-P. It SHOULD absorb the slight volume change with temperature that causes the 2-seater hydraulic systems, without any buffer, to spike. Any chance your accumulator is “flat?”  The test is operating your flaps (speed brakes?) with the hydraulic system power off. My flaps will do about 1 ½ cycles before the pressure goes to zero. If the accumulator has lost it’s pre-loaded pressure on the air side, the flaps won’t even operate through one cycle; probably won’t even extend fully? 
Bob
 
Accumulator is fine, Bob.  But.....  (there is always a but....)  In addition to the normal hydraulic systems on the Lancair IV I also have hydraulic speed brakes operated by a cylinder mounted crosswise on the back of the main spar.  The sum of all this volume causes more  hydraulic fluid to expand on the same volume of compressed nitrogen in the accumulator increasing the thermal effect of fluid expansion.  Note that  I reported a change of only 250 psi from normal to hot soak.    Without the accumulator it would   have been much more.  Recall that  Chris Z said he saw a pressure rise to 2000 psi in his system with no accumulator.
 
The key question seems to be: what negative impact, if any, occurs from high  pressure excursions in our planes?  The first thing that comes to mind is o-ring extrusion in cylinders that leads to shortened lifetime.  But is 2000 psi enough to extrude o-rings?  Depends on cylinder to piston tolerances among other things.  I don't know.  Others may.
 
Fred

 

From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Frederick Moreno
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 2:54 PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: Thermal influence on Hydraulic Pressure

 

I have an MPV-50  engine monitor that includes continuous reading of the hydraulic system pressure on my Lancair IV/    I have seen the same thing, particularly on a flight that started on a cool morning departure from my home drome and took us to the desert for a 110+F day.  On descent, pressure rose from its customary 1250 to 1500 psi at which point Bitching Betty started to complain so I bumped my speed brakes which are hydraulic, and lowered pressure back down to my customary range.   Same thing sometimes happens in reverse, a hot soak on the ground, then a climb to 10-11,000 feet for a cool soak, and at some point the hydraulic pump kicks on to restore pressure to the desired level.  My TR-182 used to the the same thing routinely when departing Phoenix in the summertime.

 

It is a real effect, and makes one wonder about very high pressure events arising from FL 270 (say) cold soak terminating in Phoenix on a July afternoon.  Hmmmm....

 

Fred

 

 

 

 

-------Original Message-------

 

 

-took this photo after a descent from 16.5k to 1,500 ft.

OAT went from 42 to 94 degrees.

High Pressure gauge is pegged at 2,000+ psi

-Didn't get a photo, but the opposite happened on the ramp in Spokane. After sitting for an hour, the low pressure gauge was pegged at 1,200 psi+.  Spokane might not be the warmest spot in the country, but at 85 deg F, it was 55 degrees warmer than the cold soak on the previous leg.

Temperature changes have a big impact on system pressure. 

 

Chris Zavatson

N91CZ

360std

 

 

 
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