X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 19:53:48 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from nm19-vm2.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([98.138.91.95] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0c1) with SMTP id 5744115 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 04 Sep 2012 17:42:53 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.138.91.95; envelope-from=chris_zavatson@yahoo.com Received: from [98.138.90.50] by nm19.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Sep 2012 21:42:18 -0000 Received: from [98.138.88.235] by tm3.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Sep 2012 21:42:18 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1035.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Sep 2012 21:42:18 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 338796.16964.bm@omp1035.mail.ne1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 8997 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Sep 2012 21:42:18 -0000 DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=LojjQ8uxXrhSJ25D+LN7A64lhOCJ8tstuERVDZ+AyIAZTLBeJIivsARYc7G7QZPOvj2Dp9bIV0hPYykib+8jMufgiOnL5h8y/9Vmaz/CkQt6c06OkDbGUVwSyxJUAjyi5pxlaCDYsYlJSv98za0kU4Bz1zZ3/RqkTFyDy07KlMQ=; X-YMail-OSG: ZnvNtWkVM1k8phnQYlVs_uzRQI3xWykmvzgNFvNvSSYM1.Q Z0jATxYOI3cY5A_gMesmPA0aY6Vi.UBxObnm5mQIX01mWpOpFsvQ65g02oxI 23EWqdvGYQxn4SAhb9tPgAyf728KopTIKald8kn1YC2Ipz8tMZ3d3CfM9zAY sU6VS3ngj5SaODOFusRKOG7VkAYYYNDsXkPj3RjmL0FMnwRjfmftER8u.UhS dFAw.ym.d2YYBTcD7ghfn_1MUrD0OFMzDgyXXHCBDzxPylcc1uuhMdI9MHY_ R2cC86AARPlWl38C6hEcZQKIASuWrfBP.1kyE10dOBd4cCg1fPqfR4vwuHdw FOba4PrM2tA_.Y9mBbvXchEVqKpHITAInHbCPwfyuRMJtE.ZoRocOU9xm6gU 4tb0pgzNRjZJj2_X4._fXD7jlNq6cO_7xx2CvWyklklufG5.PpVAmn8BseiQ Uo5rxhmYRSqxHpxL8DQTIUVyBUF2UGL3cC9Q6PWV9c46abcnpl8mVWX3EW2. uuMOqQYfTpA2sE4RkEv3XxWU5EWJ5wi99GN.f5I7P.Z6JBWs- Received: from [12.130.164.194] by web121601.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 04 Sep 2012 14:42:17 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.121.416 References: X-Original-Message-ID: <1346794937.5976.YahooMailNeo@web121601.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> X-Original-Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 14:42:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Zavatson Reply-To: Chris Zavatson Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Thermal influence on Hydraulic Pressure X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-1977980688-629072433-1346794937=:5976" ---1977980688-629072433-1346794937=:5976 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fred,=0AI wish we had an easy way of bleeding just a wee bit of pressure wi= thout momentarily dumping the gear in cruise.=0AThe 320/360 pumps use a non= -adjustable thermal relief valve rated at 2,500 psi.=A0 The actual cracking= pressure is 2,500 to 2,900 psi.=A0 This is the lowest=A0set-point Parker h= as available.=A0 2,900 psi is a lot of pressure for a system that nominally= operates at 1,200 psi.=A0 Hopefully the design margin for the cylinders et= c.=A0was chosen=A0large enough.=0AThe first time I saw a 2,000+ excursion w= as on the test bench.=A0 I was leak checking a cylinder.=A0 The test stand = was near the hangar door.=A0 The sun swung=A0around and hit the pressurized= clyinder.=A0 I dont' know what the max pressure was since that gauge only = went to 2,000 psi.=0AChris=0A=A0=0AChris Zavatson=0AN91CZ=0A360std=0Ahttp:/= /www.n91cz.net/=0A=0AFrom: Frederick Moreno = =0ATo: lml@lancaironline.net =0ASent: Monday, September 3, 2012 11:54 AM=0A= Subject: [LML] Re: Thermal influence on Hydraulic Pressure=0A=0AI have an M= PV-50=A0 engine monitor that includes continuous reading of the hydraulic s= ystem pressure on my Lancair IV/=A0=A0 =A0I have seen the same thing, parti= cularly on a flight that started on a cool morning departure from my home d= rome and took us to the desert for a 110+F day.=A0 On descent, pressure ros= e from its customary 1250 to 1500 psi at which point Bitching Betty started= to complain so I bumped my speed brakes which are hydraulic, and lowered= =A0pressure back down to my customary range.=A0=A0 Same thing sometimes hap= pens in reverse, a hot soak on the ground, then a climb to 10-11,000 feet f= or a cool soak, and at some point the=A0hydraulic pump kicks on to restore = pressure to the desired level.=A0 My TR-182 used to the the same thing rout= inely when departing Phoenix in the summertime.=0A=0AIt is a real effect, a= nd makes one wonder about very high pressure events arising from FL 270 (sa= y) cold soak terminating in Phoenix on a July afternoon.=A0 Hmmmm....=0A=0A= Fred=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A-------Original Message-------=0A=0A=0A-took this pho= to after=A0a descent from 16.5k to 1,500 ft.=0AOAT=A0went from 42 to 94 deg= rees.=0AHigh Pressure gauge is pegged at 2,000+ psi=0A-Didn't get a photo, = but the opposite happened on the ramp in Spokane.=A0After sitting for an ho= ur, the low pressure gauge was pegged at 1,200 psi+.=A0 Spokane might not b= e the warmest spot in the country, but at 85 deg F, it was 55 degrees warme= r than the cold soak on the previous leg.=0ATemperature changes have a big = impact on system pressure.=A0=0A=0AChris Zavatson=0AN91CZ=0A360std=0Ahttp:/= /www.n91cz.net/ ---1977980688-629072433-1346794937=:5976 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="-1977980688-590926963-1346794937=:5976" ---1977980688-590926963-1346794937=:5976 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Fred,
I wish we had an eas= y way of bleeding just a wee bit of pressure = without momentarily dumping the gear in cruise.
The 320/360 pumps use a non-adjustable t= hermal relief valve rated at 2,500 psi.  The actual cracking pressure = is 2,500 to 2,900 psi.  This is the lowest set-point Parker has a= vailable.  2,900 psi is a lot of pressure for a system that nominally = operates at 1,200 psi.  Hopefully the design margin for the cylinders = etc. was chosen large enough.
The first time I saw a 2,000+ excursion = was on the test bench.  I was leak checking a cylinder.  The test= stand was near the hangar door.  The sun swung around and hit th= e pressurized clyinder.  I dont' know what the max pressure was since = that gauge only went to 2,000 psi.
Chris
 
Chris Zavatson
N91CZ
360std

From:= Frederick Moreno <frederickmoreno@bigpond.com>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
<= SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent: Monday, September 3, 2012= 11:54 AM
Subject: [LML]= Re: Thermal influence on Hydraulic Pressure
I have an MPV-50  engine monitor that includes continuous reading= of the hydraulic system pressure on my Lancair IV/    I hav= e seen the same thing, particularly on a flight that started on a cool morn= ing departure from my home drome and took us to the desert for a 110+F day.=   On descent, pressure rose from its customary 1250 to 1500 psi at whi= ch point Bitching Betty started to complain so I bumped my speed brakes whi= ch are hydraulic, and lowered pressure back down to my customary range= .   Same thing sometimes happens in reverse, a hot soak on the gr= ound, then a climb to 10-11,000 feet for a cool soak, and at some point the=  hydraulic pump kicks on to restore pressure to the desired level.&nbs= p; My TR-182 used to the the same thing routinely when departing Phoenix in= the summertime.
 
It is a real effect, and makes one wonder about very high pressure eve= nts arising from FL 270 (say) cold soak terminating in Phoenix on a July af= ternoon.  Hmmmm....
 
Fred
 
 
 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
 
-took this photo after a descent from 16.5k to 1,500 ft.
OAT went from 42 to 94 degrees.
High Pressure gauge is pegged at 2,000+ psi
-Didn't get a photo, but the opposite happened on the ramp in Spokane.=  After sitting for an hour, the low pressure gauge was pegged at 1,200= psi+.  Spokane might not be the warmest spot in the country, but at 8= 5 deg F, it was 55 degrees warmer than the cold soak on the previous leg.
Temperature changes have a big impact on system pressure. 
 
Chris Zavatson
N91CZ
360std
http://www.n91cz.net/
 
=
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