X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 13:16:56 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from [70.62.14.124] (HELO ustek.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0c1) with ESMTP id 5735856 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 07:31:29 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=70.62.14.124; envelope-from=r.simon@ustek.com Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CD86A2.5625425E" Subject: RE: [LML] Re: Performance Engine TSIO 550 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 X-Original-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 07:26:44 -0400 X-Original-Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [LML] Re: Performance Engine TSIO 550 Thread-Index: Ac2GoZ5VmlNpHIYBRKiCUsAx8rdUdA== From: "Lancair" X-Original-Sender: "Robert Simon" X-Original-To: "Paul Miller" , This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CD86A2.5625425E Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_002_01CD86A2.5625425E" ------_=_NextPart_002_01CD86A2.5625425E Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There are indeed many reasons to complain about Performance and I have a full list. However when an exhaust cylinder seat failed 2 years after receipt Performance had me ship it back to them and they repaired it at no charge. Makes ya' wonder . . . =20 =20 Robert ES-P N301ES 300 hrs on a Performance TSIO550 =20 From: Paul Miller [mailto:pjdmiller@gmail.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 3:50 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Performance Engine TSIO 550 =20 If all the people who had trouble with this engine producer filed SDRs then there might be a proper investigative record. That is likely the first step needed to create a trail for someone to take action. =20 I tried to file an SDR for my failed starter adapter and it was so difficult to get the proper details filed online that I gave up. =20 =20 Paul Legacy =20 On 2012-08-29, at 12:54 PM, "Wolfgang" wrote: Why has the FAA not shut these guys (Performance Aero Engines Inc.) down ? ? =20 Wolfgang ----- Original Message ----- From: Ronald STEVENS =20 To: lml@lancaironline.net Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 5:52 AM Subject: Re: [LML] Performance Engine TSIO 550 =20 In my opinion, SOON, should be NOW, no kidding I had an Performance Engine on my Velocity and the bolts came of from the cylinders as they were torqued wrong. I had 2 bolts coming off the engine and going through the propeller. =20 Thank god they actually damaged the prop so we had to start looking for the why....well it was ugly. This engine had only 200 hours on it. Oh and I did managed to talk to them 1 time, and they came with some BS story that the bolt might broke off because of some gas trapped inside the metal......sure.....and they believe in Santa too lol =20 We had a rocker failure before (at 100 hours) and for me this engine was a nightmare. Definitely do the overhaul, get the engine back to specs, and forget about the 400HP they claim....is BS anyway, as you will never use this, not even on takeoff as you really do not need 400hp to take off in a IV-p =20 So do yourself and your family a favor...... =20 Just my opinion, Ronald =20 =20 On Aug 28, 2012, at 4:30 PM, John Barrett wrote: =09 =09 =09 OK, Thanks to the many who responded on List and off to my question. Still haven't come to a decision what to ultimately do, but it's almost 100% assured there is an engine tear down in my future - and SOON. Lots of constructive input that I appreciate immensely. It's confirmed what we all have known for few years. Almost all (good) roads lead to Barrett Performance Engines. John Barrett From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net ] On Behalf Of N66mg@aol.com Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 5:03 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: Performance Engine TSIO 550 To all that need a good engine rebuilder, I had my Glasair engine rebuilt by LyCom in Vasilia, CA...When it was rebuilt and installed, thats when I was glad they did the rebuild...Ran so smooth and with increased power, same amount of gallons per hour and increase in speed...From 183kts to 191 kts...I was very happy, they delivered what they promised...That's my 2 cents Michael Giardino n7sz L-IV 98%=20 In a message dated 8/26/2012 7:54:24 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, n5zq@verizon.net writes: John, I have a Performance Engine. With zero time on it, I sent it to Barrett Precision Engines http://www.bpaengines.com/site.html in Tulsa for complete teardown and overhaul due to the problems that many others have had with Performance. Even if no metal was showing up, you'll never have any confidence in your engine. I believe that everyone on the list who has dealt with Barrett will give them a strong recommendation. Bite the bullet and send it to Barrett (maybe you'll get a family discount? :-)=20 Bill Harrelson N5ZQ 320 2,050 hrs. N6ZQ IV under construction http://www.mykitlog.com/harrelson/ From: John Barrett =20 Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 8:56 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Performance Engine TSIO 550 Hello all, I have a quandary with this engine and am hoping to get some help in solving it. I have about 60 hours on the engine now and it runs quite well. Due to the worries related to Fred Moreno's problem with his engine and various others I was highly concerned about the safety of operating my L-IVP with this power plant. To that end I've been monitoring it closely and have been doing frequent oil changes to look for developing problems.=20 All parameters have been good except there was silicone early on in the oil (first change was at 5 hours then at about 15, then at 35 hours and another later on.) and a slight elevation in aluminum. Second oil change still have the silicon and aluminum was much higher. Also there was a bit of metal flakes in the filter element - non magnetic. Last oil change was even higher aluminum and silicon still elevated. The oil filter element looked like it had glitter applied to it. Blackstone has been doing the oil analysis. I sent the last filter element to Howard Fenton (2nd oilpinion in Oklahoma) and he expressed concern and advised to quit flying until the problem is figured out.=20 He says the only metal found is aluminum and he's never seen or heard of that. Always in his experience there would be some other metal showing up in excess as well because there isn't a place in the engine he's aware of the aluminum rubs against aluminum. I discovered after the second oil change that the alternate air door was not closing completely and that probably explains the silicon. I did compression check a couple of days ago and got normal readings - 80/75 to 77. I don't have a plan about how to trouble shoot the origin of this metal. I notice that cylinder #5 runs hottest egt's during warmup but other than that I can't think of anything out of the ordinary. Does anyone have a suggestion about how to sleuth out this problem? Regards, John Barrett, CEO Leading Edge Composites PO Box 428 Port Hadlock, WA 98339 www.carbinge.com =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_002_01CD86A2.5625425E Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

There are = indeed many reasons to complain about Performance and I have a full = list.  However when an exhaust cylinder seat failed 2 years after = receipt Performance had me ship it back to them and they repaired it at = no charge.  Makes ya’ wonder . . . =  

 =

Robert=

ES-P = N301ES

300 hrs on = a Performance TSIO550

 =

From:= = Paul Miller [mailto:pjdmiller@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, = August 29, 2012 3:50 PM
To: = lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Performance = Engine TSIO 550

 

If all the = people who had trouble with this engine producer filed SDRs then there = might be a proper investigative record.   That is likely the first = step needed to create a trail for someone to take = action.

 

I = tried to file an SDR for my failed starter adapter and it was so = difficult to get the proper details filed online that I gave up. =  

 

Paul

Legacy

 

On = 2012-08-29, at 12:54 PM, "Wolfgang" <Wolfgang@MiCom.net> = wrote:



Why has the = FAA not shut these guys (Performance Aero Engines Inc.) down ? = ?

 

Wolfgang

----- = Original Message -----

From:<= /b> = Ronald = STEVENS

Sent:<= /b> = Wednesday, = August 29, 2012 5:52 AM

Subject: = Re: [LML] = Performance Engine TSIO 550

&nbs= p;

In my = opinion, SOON, should be NOW, no kidding I had an Performance Engine on = my Velocity and the bolts came of from the cylinders as they were = torqued wrong. I had 2 bolts coming off the engine and going through the = propeller.

&nbs= p;

Thank = god they actually damaged the prop so we had to start looking for the = why....well it was ugly. This engine had only 200 hours on = it.

Oh and I = did managed to talk to them 1 time, and they came with some BS story = that the bolt might broke off because of some gas trapped inside the = metal......sure.....and they believe in Santa too = lol

&nbs= p;

We had a = rocker failure before (at 100 hours) and for me this engine was a = nightmare. Definitely do the overhaul, get the engine back to specs, and = forget about the 400HP they claim....is BS anyway, as you will never use = this, not even on takeoff as you really do not need 400hp to take off in = a IV-p

&nbs= p;

So do = yourself and your family a = favor......

&nbs= p;

Just my = opinion, Ronald

&nbs= p;

&nbs= p;

On Aug = 28, 2012, at 4:30 PM, John Barrett wrote:



<= o:p>

OK,

Thanks to the many who responded on List and off to my = question.  Still haven’t come to a decision what to = ultimately do, but it’s almost 100% assured there is an engine = tear down in my future – and = SOON.

Lots of constructive input that I appreciate = immensely.

It’s confirmed what we all have known for few years.  = Almost all (good) roads lead to Barrett Performance = Engines.

John Barrett

From:=  Lancair = Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of N66mg@aol.com
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 5:03 = AM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sub= ject: [LML] Re: = Performance Engine TSIO = 550

To all that need a good engine rebuilder,  = I had my Glasair engine rebuilt by LyCom in Vasilia, CA...When it was = rebuilt and installed, thats when I was glad they did the = rebuild...Ran so smooth and with increased power, same amount = of gallons per hour and increase in speed...From 183kts to 191 = kts...I was very happy, they delivered what they = promised...That's      my 2 = cents

Michael Giardino

n7sz  L-IV  98% =

In a message = dated 8/26/2012 7:54:24 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, n5zq@verizon.net writes:

<= /div>
=

John,

I have a Performance Engine. With zero time on it, = I sent it to Barrett Precision Engines http://www.bpaengines.com/s= ite.html in Tulsa = for complete teardown and overhaul due to the problems that many others = have had with Performance. Even if no metal was showing up, you’ll = never have any confidence in your engine. I believe that everyone on the = list who has dealt with Barrett will give them a strong recommendation. = Bite the bullet and send it to Barrett (maybe you’ll get a family = discount? :-) 

Bill = Harrelson

N5ZQ 320 2,050 = hrs.

N6ZQ  IV under = construction

Sent:=  Saturday, = August 25, 2012 8:56 AM

Subject: [LML] = Performance Engine TSIO = 550

Hello all,

I have a quandary with this engine and am hoping to = get some help in solving it.

I have about 60 hours on the engine now and it runs = quite well.  Due to the worries related to Fred Moreno’s = problem with his engine and various others I was highly concerned about = the safety of operating my L-IVP with this power plant.  To that = end I’ve been monitoring it closely and have been doing frequent = oil changes to look for developing = problems. 

All = parameters have been good except there was silicone early on in the oil = (first change was at 5 hours then at about 15, then at 35 hours and = another later on.) and a slight elevation in aluminum.  Second oil = change still have the silicon and aluminum was much higher.  Also = there was a bit of metal flakes in the filter element – non = magnetic.  Last oil change was even higher aluminum and silicon = still elevated.  The oil filter element looked like it had glitter = applied to it.  Blackstone has been doing the oil analysis.  I = sent the last filter element to Howard Fenton (2nd oilpinion in Oklahoma) and he = expressed concern and advised to quit flying until the problem is = figured out. 

He says = the only metal found is aluminum and he’s never seen or heard of = that.  Always in his experience there would be some other metal = showing up in excess as well because there isn’t a place in the = engine he’s aware of the aluminum rubs against = aluminum.

I discovered = after the second oil change that the alternate air door was not closing = completely and that probably explains the = silicon.

I did compression = check a couple of days ago and got normal readings – 80/75 to = 77.

I don’t have a = plan about how to trouble shoot the origin of this metal.  I notice = that cylinder #5 runs hottest egt’s during warmup but other than = that I can’t think of anything out of the = ordinary.

Does anyone have = a suggestion about how to  sleuth out this = problem?

Regards,

John Barrett, CEO

Leading Edge Composites

PO Box 428

Port Hadlock, WA 98339

 

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