X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 17:32:10 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from p3plex1out02.prod.phx3.secureserver.net ([72.167.180.18] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.1) with SMTP id 5123008 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 13 Sep 2011 12:27:57 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=72.167.180.18; envelope-from=pete@leapfrogventures.com Received: (qmail 12168 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2011 16:13:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.ex1.secureserver.net) (72.167.180.19) by p3plex1out02.prod.phx3.secureserver.net with SMTP; 13 Sep 2011 16:13:48 -0000 Received: from P3PW5EX1MB14.EX1.SECURESERVER.NET ([10.6.135.87]) by P3PW5EX1HT001.EX1.SECURESERVER.NET ([72.167.180.19]) with mapi; Tue, 13 Sep 2011 09:13:29 -0700 From: "pete@leapfrogventures.com" X-Original-To: Brent Regan , "lml@lancaironline.net" X-Original-Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 09:13:02 -0700 Subject: RE: Figuring out the pressurization system IV-P Thread-Topic: Figuring out the pressurization system IV-P Thread-Index: Acxx+/pbwAW2mgQxQeSEBSI9sP4nNgAMooXA X-Original-Message-ID: <2A14E6258A8534418F5498D73CCA51EF1670C8C4@P3PW5EX1MB14.EX1.SECURESERVER.NET> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 I guess I should have used different words. In speaking to an engineer at = Lancair, I was told the plane was tested to 7.5 psi, and that this person s= uggested a 5.5 psi max differential in operation was perfectly fine. As for the pop-off valve, I discovered that mine needed to be adjusted. I = built a plenum out of an old candy container and pressurized it to calibrat= e the pop off valve to start releasing at about 5.8 psi. During my initial= testing, the Dukes wasn't operating correctly and was letting the pressuri= zation climb infinitely. I also discovered that the pop off valve, even wh= en calibrated, did not let enough air bleed out to keep the pressurization = from far exceeding 5.5 psi (I think it got as high as 6.5 psi before I manu= ally released it with the mixer). As a result of this, I added a 6 psi ove= rpressure switch that lights an annunciator on my G900 (which already exist= ed and was called Cabin Pressure) to warn me if this condition happens agai= n. I calibrated the pressure switch using the same plenum I used for the p= op off valve. Luckily, since getting my Dukes properly calibrated, I have = not had an over-pressurization incident. As for Brent's calculation, apparently the Dukes is designed to allow a spe= cific volume of air to pass through the cabin at all pressurization setting= s so as to provide fresh air to the occupants. To determine the minimum MA= P needed, this flow rate (essentially a calibrated leakage) needs to be add= ed to his numbers. I forget how many CFM it was, but it is a significant n= umber. Pete -----Original Message----- Pete's statement is mostly true but indicates some misconceptions about pre= ssurization. FIrst, the design operating point is 5.0 PSI differential (Inside Pressure = - Outside Pressure). 5.5 PSI is when the over Pressure Relief valve should = start to open. The design flow through the cabin is specified by the FAA at= 10 SCFM per passenger, 40 SCFM for a IV-P. Second, planes leak air. The pressurization system utilizes a Sonic Venturi= to provide air from the Deck (after the turbo but before the throttle) to the cabin. A Sonic Venturi is a little like a Black Hole in th= at what happens downstream doesn't much effect what is happening upstream s= o releasing the door seal does not significantly change the Deck Pressure. = Deck Pressure is above Manifold Pressure by an amount determined by the Was= te Gate Controller, but usually runs around 2 InHg. Regulation of cabin pr= essure is done by the Outflow Valve which controls how much air leaves the = cabin. Air can also leave the cabin via air leaks. All planes leak and the = amount of the leakage varies from one aircraft to another. A perfectly seal= ed cabin could be pressurized with a bicycle pump, but this would require t= he smallest pinhole be plugged.=20 In practice, a well sealed IV-P can be pressurised on the ground with a 10H= p air compressor. I performed a static ground proof test on my plane to 7.5= PSI (150% of operating pressure). It took me two days of chasing leaks to = achieve that pressure. Third, Cabin Altitude is the absolute pressure altitude of the cabin while = Cabin Pressure is the differential between inside pressure and outside pres= sure. From all this we can deduce that the manifold pressure needed to maintain = a specified Cabin Pressure is a function of Altitude and Leakage. At FL280 = the ambient pressure is 9.75 InHg. 5 PSI is equal to 10.15 InHg so if we assume the condition where the deck pressure is 2 InHg = over manifold and the Sonic Venture pressure drop is also 2 InHg, the minim= um needed manifold pressure is about 20 InHg, assuming low leakage. As the = leakage increases the outflow valve must restrict its flow until at some le= akage rate the outflow valve is completely closed and can no longer control= the cabin pressure. As the leakage rate increases above this point the man= ifold pressure In conclusion, every aircraft's leakage rate is different, so the relations= hip between Cabin Pressure, Manifold Pressure and Altitude will be differen= t for every aircraft. Get to know your aircraft with flight testing. You will gain valuable knowl= edge, skills and become a better pilot. Regards Brent Regan