X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2011 12:31:20 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from amcrelay1.faa.gov ([162.58.35.109] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.1) with ESMTP id 5115226 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 06 Sep 2011 11:30:31 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=162.58.35.109; envelope-from=larry.eversmeyer@faa.gov X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.68,339,1312174800"; d="scan'208";a="116395735" Received: from unknown (HELO amcrthub.faa.gov) ([162.58.35.143]) by amcrelay1.faa.gov with ESMTP; 06 Sep 2011 10:14:49 -0500 In-Reply-To: References: X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Dragger for 4P X-KeepSent: A49E52DC:68BB2FCE-86257903:00538DBB; type=4; name=$KeepSent X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 8.0.2FP1 SHF148 July 15, 2009 From: larry.eversmeyer@faa.gov X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 10:14:46 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on AMCRTHUB/AMC/H/FAA(Release 8.5.1FP4|July 25, 2010) at 09/06/2011 10:14:49 AM, Serialize complete at 09/06/2011 10:14:49 AM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0053BFA986257903_=" X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0053BFA986257903_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" John, The nose pan sounds like a good idea. Another advantage, I would have a mower to mow the grass around the hanger. Let us know if you come up with an idea. Larry Eversmeyer Legacy RG still building From: "John Barrett" To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: 09/06/2011 09:48 AM Subject: [LML] Re: Dragger for 4P Sent by: "Lancair Mailing List" Sounds good in theory Hamid. I have tried it with an old Craftsman riding lawnmower. Have put a towing ball on the front and on the rear of the lawnmower. On the plus side, it's great to avoid the feet slipping on concrete and struggling to push the plane into the hangar. In practice, there is a HUGE drawback in that steering the tractor needs to have the nose wheel of the aircraft off the ground in order to work. The very short coupling of the turning response on the tractor combined with same on the airplane makes controlling the path the airplane makes difficult. I find that if I first pull the airplane forward with the tractor in reverse until I have a perfectly straight path centered into the hangar, I can get the plane in to the hangar with one pass maybe half the time. It's really easy to get the nose wheel turned beyond limits. On my Beechcraft Sierra it's lucky that a rod end bearing is the weak link. I broke two of those before I figured out it was going beyond the limits when trying to control the direction and the geometry. I think if you could figure out a way to build a nose wheel pan on the front of your tractor and winch the nose wheel off the ground into that pan, then the system would work well. Have been thinking about that and maybe will build one. John Barrett -----Original Message----- From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Hamid Wasti Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 8:43 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: Dragger for 4P DISCLAIMER: This is just an idea, I have NOT personally tried this. Most of the products like Dragger/Aero-Tow etc run for over $1K, some close to $2K. Yesterday at Sears I saw customer-return/refurbished "Lawn Tractors" for under $700 and new ones for about $900. Other sources likely have similar prices. You can buy one of these, remove the mower deck and do a little engineering to attach a tow bar and now you have a tug with a 15+ HP engine and electric start. You may be able to recoup some of your initial cost by selling the removed mower deck on eBay or Craig's List. Regards, Hamid Ronald STEVENS wrote: > I am using the Aero-Tow. I bought it for my old cirrus, but I could adapt it for the 4p. It is 5 year old and still works perfectly. > > It works really great and would recommend this. > > == Ronald > > On Sep 4, 2011, at 8:18 PM, Bob Rickard wrote: > > >> Fellas, >> >> I have the new dragger from Dragger.com and I don't like it. Do you guys like anything else for a 4P? >> >> Bob R. >> >> >> -- >> For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html >> > > > > -- > For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html > > > -- For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3879 - Release Date: 09/05/11 -- For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html --=_alternative 0053BFA986257903_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
John,  The nose pan sounds like a good idea.  Another advantage, I would have a mower to mow the grass around the hanger.  Let us know if you come up with an idea.

Larry Eversmeyer
Legacy RG   still building


From: "John Barrett" <jbarrett@carbinge.com>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: 09/06/2011 09:48 AM
Subject: [LML] Re: Dragger for 4P
Sent by: "Lancair Mailing List" <lml@lancaironline.net>




Sounds good in theory Hamid.  

I have tried it with an old Craftsman riding lawnmower.  Have put a towing
ball on the front and on the rear of the lawnmower.  

On the plus side, it's great to avoid the feet slipping on concrete and
struggling to push the plane into the hangar.  In practice, there is a HUGE
drawback in that steering the tractor needs to have the nose wheel of the
aircraft off the ground in order to work.  The very short coupling of the
turning response on the tractor combined with same on the airplane makes
controlling the path the airplane makes difficult.  I find that if I first
pull the airplane forward with the tractor in reverse until I have a
perfectly straight path centered into the hangar, I can get the plane in to
the hangar with one pass maybe half the time.  

It's really easy to get the nose wheel turned beyond limits.  On my
Beechcraft Sierra it's lucky that a rod end bearing is the weak link.  I
broke two of those before I figured out it was going beyond the limits when
trying to control the direction and the geometry.

I think if you could figure out a way to build a nose wheel pan on the front
of your tractor and winch the nose wheel off the ground into that pan, then
the system would work well.  Have been thinking about that and maybe will
build one.

John Barrett

-----Original Message-----
From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Hamid
Wasti
Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 8:43 PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: Dragger for 4P

DISCLAIMER: This is just an idea, I have NOT personally tried this.

Most of the products like Dragger/Aero-Tow etc run for over $1K, some
close to $2K. Yesterday at Sears I saw customer-return/refurbished "Lawn
Tractors" for under $700 and new ones for about $900. Other sources
likely have similar prices.

You can buy one of these, remove the mower deck and do a little
engineering to attach a tow bar and now you have a tug with a 15+ HP
engine and electric start. You may be able to recoup some of your
initial cost by selling the removed mower deck on eBay or Craig's List.

Regards,

Hamid

Ronald STEVENS wrote:
> I am using the Aero-Tow. I bought it for my old cirrus, but I could adapt
it for the 4p. It is 5 year old and still works perfectly.
>
> It works really great and would recommend this.
>
> == Ronald
>
> On Sep 4, 2011, at 8:18 PM, Bob Rickard wrote:
>
>  
>> Fellas,
>>
>> I have the new dragger from Dragger.com and I don't like it.  Do you guys
like anything else for a 4P?
>>
>> Bob R.
>>
>>
>> --
>> For archives and unsub
http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html
>>    
>
>
>
> --
> For archives and unsub
http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html
>
>
>  

--
For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3879 - Release Date: 09/05/11


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