X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 14:36:43 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from vms173003pub.verizon.net ([206.46.173.3] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.1) with ESMTP id 5102249 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 10:42:28 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=206.46.173.3; envelope-from=danny.miller@verizon.net Received: from DannyLaptop ([unknown] [71.114.1.123]) by vms173003.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 32bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPA id <0LQF003R0STHB1Q4@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net> for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 09:41:44 -0500 (CDT) From: "Danny Miller" X-Original-To: "'Skip Slater'" , References: In-reply-to: Subject: RE: [LML] Re: How do I run lean of peak? X-Original-Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 10:41:39 -0400 X-Original-Message-id: <001e01cc626b$f0084bc0$d018e340$@miller@verizon.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01CC624A.68F6ABC0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-index: Acxg1SMY6zZktApkQ1egPwZKGrSYRgBlmWWg Content-language: en-us This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01CC624A.68F6ABC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the input Skip. I don=E2=80=99t worry too much about FBO = rates or engine work because I have an A&P ticket too. However, as = I=E2=80=99ve said in a couple of recent replies, I will certainly give = this course some further consideration. The one thing I know best is I = don=E2=80=99t know it all. =20 Danny Miller N 38=C2=B0 43' 25.7" W 77=C2=B0 30' 38.6" =20 From: Skip Slater [mailto:skipslater@verizon.net]=20 Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 10:10 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] Re: How do I run lean of peak? =20 Danny, As a APS attendee, I could not possibly disagree with you more on the = value of attending this course. I have easily saved several times what = I spent to attend, not only in decreased fuel burn over the years since, = but from the knowledge I gained in reading and troubleshooting your = engines through techniques they teach in how to read what your engine = analyzer is telling you. One example is the technique to do an occasional mag check at = altitude before you begin a descent. On two different occasions, that = check revealed a rough engine on a single ignition source. On two mags, = I couldn't feel any roughness, so wasn't aware anything was wrong. Once = I felt it on the mag check, my analyzer told me which cylinder wasn't = firing. Once on the ground, I repeated the check and all plugs worked = OK. It was the altitude that caused the affected plugs to arc. Without = having to go to a shop, I replaced the affected plug and was good to go. Another thing that happened to me was a slightly clogged fuel = injector. From my APS course, I was able to diagnose the problem, pull = the affected injector and clean it myself. I don't now what your FBO charges per hour to troubleshoot and fix = engines, but I've saved myself a wallet full of dollars on this kind of = stuff and my guess is that any other APS attendee will tell you the same = thing. The real intangible though is that if you make a habit of using = the techniques you're taught in that class, your engine will go longer = before needing a top end or overhaul. The corporate knowledge of the = instructors in that class is unbelievable and they'll make you = understand everything they teach. For me, it was an investment that = keeps on giving. =20 Skip Slater N540ES =20 I=E2=80=99m not convinced of the ROI for spending $995 on this course in = my particular case. As an example, for my LNC2 with an IO-360, if I burn = 9 gph running ROP and 8.5 gph running LOP (best case scenario), how long = does it take to recover the expense? To keep it simple, let=E2=80=99s = say I spend $6/gal. So, that=E2=80=99s $995 x gal/$6 / 0.5gph =3D 331.7 = hrs, or about 3 years of flying. So, the question becomes, is it worth = all the hub bub? Again, for me, I think not. For you guys with the high = burn rates, maybe so. But what is your actual hourly saving and is it = worth the additional stress on your engines for the potentially much = lower TBO? You decide and your mileage may vary. =20 Danny Miller N 38=C2=B0 43' 25.7" W 77=C2=B0 30' 38.6" ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01CC624A.68F6ABC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks for the input = Skip.=C2=A0 I don=E2=80=99t worry too much about FBO rates or engine = work because I have an A&P ticket too.=C2=A0 However, as = I=E2=80=99ve said in a couple of recent replies, I will certainly give = this course some further consideration.=C2=A0 The one thing I know best = is I don=E2=80=99t know it all.

 <= /p>

Danny = Miller

N 38=C2=B0 43' = 25.7"

W 77=C2=B0 30' = 38.6"

 <= /p>

From: Skip = Slater [mailto:skipslater@verizon.net]
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 = 10:10 AM
To: = lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: How do I = run lean of peak?

 

Danny,=

   = As a APS attendee, I could not possibly disagree with you more on the = value of attending this course.  I have easily saved several times = what I spent to attend, not only in decreased fuel burn over the years = since, but from the knowledge I gained in reading and troubleshooting = your engines through techniques they teach in how to read what your = engine analyzer is telling = you.

   = One example is the technique to do an occasional mag check at = altitude before you begin a descent.  On two different occasions, = that check revealed a rough engine on a single ignition source. On = two mags, I couldn't feel any roughness, so wasn't aware anything was = wrong.  Once I felt it on the mag check, my analyzer told me which = cylinder wasn't firing.  Once on the ground, I repeated the check = and all plugs worked OK.  It was the altitude that caused the = affected plugs to arc.  Without having to go to a shop, I = replaced the affected plug and was good to = go.

   = Another thing that happened to me was a slightly clogged fuel = injector.  From my APS course, I was able to diagnose the problem, = pull the affected injector and clean it = myself.

  I = don't now what your FBO charges per hour to troubleshoot and fix = engines, but I've saved myself a wallet full of dollars on = this kind of stuff and my guess is that any other APS attendee will tell = you the same thing.  The real intangible though is that if you make = a habit of using the techniques you're taught in that class, your engine = will go longer before needing a top end or overhaul.  The = corporate knowledge of the instructors in that class is unbelievable and = they'll make you understand everything they teach.  For me, it was = an investment that keeps on = giving.  

   = Skip Slater

   = N540ES

 

=

I=E2=80=99m not convinced of = the ROI for spending $995 on this course in my particular case. As an = example, for my LNC2 with an IO-360, if I burn 9 gph running ROP and 8.5 = gph running LOP (best case scenario), how long does it take to recover = the expense? To keep it simple, let=E2=80=99s say I spend $6/gal. So, = that=E2=80=99s $995 x gal/$6 / 0.5gph =3D 331.7 hrs, or about 3 years of = flying. So, the question becomes, is it worth all the hub bub? Again, = for me, I think not. For you guys with the high burn rates, maybe so. = But what is your actual hourly saving and is it worth the additional = stress on your engines for the potentially much lower TBO? You decide = and your mileage may vary.

 <= /p>

Danny = Miller

N 38=C2=B0 43' = 25.7"

W 77=C2=B0 30' = 38.6"

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