X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 08:01:22 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imr-mb01.mx.aol.com ([64.12.207.164] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.1) with ESMTP id 5100635 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 23 Aug 2011 00:05:26 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.207.164; envelope-from=vtailjeff@aol.com Received: from mtaout-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.67]) by imr-mb01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p7N44lXj009349 for ; Tue, 23 Aug 2011 00:04:47 -0400 Received: from [10.40.250.16] (mobile-198-228-215-249.mycingular.net [198.228.215.249]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mtaout-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPSA id BFA03E0000E3; Tue, 23 Aug 2011 00:04:44 -0400 (EDT) References: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPad Mail 8L1) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-1-757636330 X-Original-Message-Id: <17638567-8D8D-45FE-BB12-B87B35CB1371@aol.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: iPad Mail (8L1) From: vtailjeff@aol.com Subject: Re: [LML] Re: How do I run lean of peak? X-Original-Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 21:04:39 -0700 X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:315221280:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d29434e5326dc245d X-AOL-IP: 198.228.215.249 --Apple-Mail-1-757636330 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Skip, I agree with you 110 per cent. The course really raises your knowledge of al= l things engine. Jeff Sent from my iPad On Aug 22, 2011, at 7:09 AM, "Skip Slater" wrote: > Danny, > As a APS attendee, I could not possibly disagree with you more on the v= alue of attending this course. I have easily saved several times what I spe= nt to attend, not only in decreased fuel burn over the years since, but from= the knowledge I gained in reading and troubleshooting your engines through t= echniques they teach in how to read what your engine analyzer is telling you= . > One example is the technique to do an occasional mag check at altitude b= efore you begin a descent. On two different occasions, that check revealed a= rough engine on a single ignition source. On two mags, I couldn't feel any r= oughness, so wasn't aware anything was wrong. Once I felt it on the mag che= ck, my analyzer told me which cylinder wasn't firing. Once on the ground, I= repeated the check and all plugs worked OK. It was the altitude that cause= d the affected plugs to arc. Without having to go to a shop, I replaced the= affected plug and was good to go. > Another thing that happened to me was a slightly clogged fuel injector.= =46rom my APS course, I was able to diagnose the problem, pull the affecte= d injector and clean it myself. > I don't now what your FBO charges per hour to troubleshoot and fix engin= es, but I've saved myself a wallet full of dollars on this kind of stuff an= d my guess is that any other APS attendee will tell you the same thing. The= real intangible though is that if you make a habit of using the techniques y= ou're taught in that class, your engine will go longer before needing a top e= nd or overhaul. The corporate knowledge of the instructors in that class is= unbelievable and they'll make you understand everything they teach. For me= , it was an investment that keeps on giving. =20 > Skip Slater > N540ES > =20 > I=E2=80=99m not convinced of the ROI for spending $995 on this course in m= y particular case. As an example, for my LNC2 with an IO-360, if I burn 9 gp= h running ROP and 8.5 gph running LOP (best case scenario), how long does it= take to recover the expense? To keep it simple, let=E2=80=99s say I spend $= 6/gal. So, that=E2=80=99s $995 x gal/$6 / 0.5gph =3D 331.7 hrs, or about 3 y= ears of flying. So, the question becomes, is it worth all the hub bub? Again= , for me, I think not. For you guys with the high burn rates, maybe so. But w= hat is your actual hourly saving and is it worth the additional stress on yo= ur engines for the potentially much lower TBO? You decide and your mileage m= ay vary. >=20 >=20 > Danny Miller >=20 > N 38=C2=B0 43' 25.7" >=20 > W 77=C2=B0 30' 38.6" --Apple-Mail-1-757636330 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Skip,

I agree w= ith you 110 per cent. The course really raises your knowledge of all things e= ngine.

Jeff

Sent from my iPad

= On Aug 22, 2011, at 7:09 AM, "Skip Slater" <skipslater@verizon.net> wrote:

<= blockquote type=3D"cite">
Danny,
   As a APS attendee, I could= not=20 possibly disagree with you more on the value of attending this course. = I=20 have easily saved several times what I spent to attend, not only in decrease= d=20 fuel burn over the years since, but from the knowledge I gained in reading a= nd=20 troubleshooting your engines through techniques they teach in how to read wh= at=20 your engine analyzer is telling you.
   One example is the techniq= ue to do an=20 occasional mag check at altitude before you begin a descent.  On t= wo=20 different occasions, that check revealed a rough engine on a single ignition= =20 source. On two mags, I couldn't feel any roughness, so wasn't aware=20 anything was wrong.  Once I felt it on the mag check, my analyzer told m= e=20 which cylinder wasn't firing.  Once on the ground, I repeated the check= and=20 all plugs worked OK.  It was the altitude that caused the=20 affected plugs to arc.  Without having to go to a shop, I=20 replaced the affected plug and was good to go.
   Another thing that ha= ppened to me=20 was a slightly clogged fuel injector.  =46rom my APS course, I was able= to=20 diagnose the problem, pull the affected injector and clean it=20 myself.
  I don't now what your FBO charge= s per hour=20 to troubleshoot and fix engines, but I've saved myself a wallet=20 full of dollars on this kind of stuff and my guess is that any other AP= S=20 attendee will tell you the same thing.  The real intangible though is t= hat=20 if you make a habit of using the techniques you're taught in that class, you= r=20 engine will go longer before needing a top end or=20 overhaul.  The corporate knowledge of the instructors in that class is=20= unbelievable and they'll make you understand everything they teach.  Fo= r=20 me, it was an investment that keeps on giving.  
   Skip Slater
   N540ES
 

I=E2=80=99m not convin= ced of the ROI for=20 spending $995 on this course in my particular case. As an example, for my LN= C2=20 with an IO-360, if I burn 9 gph running ROP and 8.5 gph running LOP (best ca= se=20 scenario), how long does it take to recover the expense? To keep it simple,=20= let=E2=80=99s say I spend $6/gal. So, that=E2=80=99s $995 x gal/$6 / 0.5gph =3D= 331.7 hrs, or=20 about 3 years of flying. So, the question becomes, is it worth all the hub b= ub?=20 Again, for me, I think not. For you guys with the high burn rates, maybe so.= But=20 what is your actual hourly saving and is it worth the additional stress on y= our=20 engines for the potentially much lower TBO? You decide and your mileage may=20= vary.

Danny=20 Miller

N 38=C2=B0 43'=20 25.7"

W 77=C2=B0 30'=20 38.6"

= --Apple-Mail-1-757636330--