X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 10:09:41 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from nm2-vm1.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([98.138.91.33] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.1) with SMTP id 5099628 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 07:19:29 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.138.91.33; envelope-from=casey.gary@yahoo.com Received: from [98.138.90.52] by nm2.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Aug 2011 11:18:54 -0000 Received: from [98.138.89.240] by tm5.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Aug 2011 11:18:54 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1013.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Aug 2011 11:18:54 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 441687.95254.bm@omp1013.mail.ne1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 57702 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Aug 2011 11:18:54 -0000 DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=f8orT3loqrbrmUL2uPyo4KmWtDAu5zo28beQ9I1CM2fzAe4qV88vPNylFmtJ3AIupGvvE1vEqikmh/SGuSMAPeq6aAfXhr6S1MgMv0OBk7SMPKwBXj+bRV3bz3Av3NMj0wL6WjQ1x8cd3M5RET9GwNY/YmdZRVozYG3Z9tio4MQ=; X-YMail-OSG: P20q0PwVM1moj62.bJvnoIGYv5MGKNkXxwvFS_5DxcieNiM jf8a0SCykazBmF4Y85MSGZyP7KvyrXE3L5CMAzlpB9HI8cgDX7Nb1q80HGfg cP088a_2o0tkoJFyMGGu1nfyls78flwtfLCN0r8kM055asy48qSSmKCIK7rm q4xKUPTq1at88lqPtmaWWL_rUQFr5GUaVJG6HSrw6TAyB9HkN4x8UjCFRNjH ZptIK5QmorwbwIMHA2IT_7Vss5gWQj7jHhyVU_RsddtuR6HclbBOIVMu4xF5 NmCq7GV4SgPW7QDjdcRRwcrcu9e_NDKAMjGxltFg3P2epvKvyXReewtWLRAq YhYtI5icqVFN7PoTejYhoP5dyl6SRA2nOlIJ19tj8WWg- Received: from [97.122.186.204] by web125617.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 04:18:54 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.113.313619 References: X-Original-Message-ID: <1314011934.57362.YahooMailNeo@web125617.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> X-Original-Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 04:18:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Casey Reply-To: Gary Casey Subject: Re: How do I run lean of peak? X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1015397250-1314011934=:57362" --0-1015397250-1314011934=:57362 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I won't comment on other aspects of LOP operation, as Walter pretty much co= vered that. =C2=A0But I think the ROI calculations below are not realistic.= =C2=A0I flew behind an IO-360(Lyc) for many hours and, depending on the po= wer setting) the ROP fuel flow was more like 11 to 12 GPH. =C2=A0The LOP nu= mber was, as Danny suggested, about 8.5. =C2=A0This was at about 12,000 fee= t and 2500 rpm. =C2=A0Instead of the 0.5 GPH savings, it is more realistica= lly 1.5 and up to 2.5 GPH savings. =C2=A0That brings the break-even in cost= down to maybe 100 hours from 331. =C2=A0And that doesn't count the - in my= experience - doubled time between spark plug cleanings and potentially lon= ger time between oil changes. =C2=A0I run about 70 hours instead of 50. =C2= =A0Then there is the increased engine life because of lower peak cylinder p= ressures and lower CHT's. =C2=A0Granted, you will take a minute or two long= er to get where you are going. =C2=A0My ES cruises at about 174 LOP (12.3 G= PH) and 180 ROP (15+ GPH). =C2=A0What's not to like?=0AGary Csey=0A=0AI=E2=80=99m not convinced of the ROI for spe= nding $995 on this course in my particular case.=C2=A0 As an example, for m= y LNC2 with an IO-360, if I burn 9 gph running ROP and 8.5 gph running LOP = (best case scenario), how long does it take to recover the expense?=C2=A0 T= o keep it simple, let=E2=80=99s say I spend $6/gal.=C2=A0 So, that=E2=80=99= s $995 x gal/$6 / 0.5gph =3D 331.7 hrs, or about 3 years of flying.=C2=A0 S= o, the question becomes, is it worth all the hub bub?=C2=A0 Again, for me, = I think not.=C2=A0 For you guys with the high burn rates, maybe so.=C2=A0 B= ut what is your actual hourly saving and is it worth the additional stress = on your engines for the potentially much lower TBO?=C2=A0 You decide and yo= ur mileage may vary.=0A=C2=A0=0ADanny Miller --0-1015397250-1314011934=:57362 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I won't comment on other aspects of LOP operation, as Walter pret= ty much covered that.  But I think the ROI calculations below are not = realistic.  I flew behind an IO-360(Lyc) for many hours and, depending= on the power setting) the ROP fuel flow was more like 11 to 12 GPH.  = The LOP number was, as Danny suggested, about 8.5.  This was at about = 12,000 feet and 2500 rpm.  Instead of the 0.5 GPH savings, it is more = realistically 1.5 and up to 2.5 GPH savings.  That brings the break-ev= en in cost down to maybe 100 hours from 331.  And that doesn't count t= he - in my experience - doubled time between spark plug cleanings and potentially longer time between oil changes.  I run about 70 hours in= stead of 50.  Then there is the increased engine life because of lower= peak cylinder pressures and lower CHT's.  Granted, you will take a mi= nute or two longer to get where you are going.  My ES cruises at about= 174 LOP (12.3 GPH) and 180 ROP (15+ GPH).  What's not to like?=
Gary Csey

I=E2=80=99m n= ot convinced of the ROI for spending $995 on this course in my particular c= ase.  As an example, for my LNC2 with an IO-360, if I burn 9 gph runni= ng ROP and 8.5 gph running LOP (best case scenario), how long does it take = to recover the expense?  To keep it simple, let=E2=80=99s say I spend = $6/gal.  So, that=E2=80=99s $995 x gal/$6 / 0.5gph =3D 331.7 hrs, or a= bout 3 years of flying.  So, the question becomes, is it worth all the= hub bub?  Again, for me, I think not.  For you guys with the hig= h burn rates, maybe so.  But what is your actual hourly saving and is = it worth the additional stress on your engines for the potentially much low= er TBO?  You decide and your mileage may vary.
 
Danny Miller
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