X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 08:17:04 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mailout-us.gmx.com ([74.208.5.67] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with SMTP id 5059382 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 21 Jul 2011 14:41:58 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.208.5.67; envelope-from=cfi@instructor.net Received: (qmail 22570 invoked by uid 0); 21 Jul 2011 18:41:24 -0000 Received: from 184.88.13.235 by rms-us007.v300.gmx.net with HTTP Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="========GMXBoundary145641311273681402226" X-Original-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 18:41:20 +0000 From: "Ron Galbraith" X-Original-Message-ID: <20110721184121.145640@gmx.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [LML] mode s and ads-b compliance and upgrading transponders X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" X-Authenticated: #73491717 X-Flags: 0001 X-Mailer: GMX.com Web Mailer x-registered: 0 X-GMX-UID: sB5DJq1t6ECzI20AFmxr4d5OU2poZZn6 --========GMXBoundary145641311273681402226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit David, The mode S transponder Bill suggested cost is about $2300 including the control head or $1800 without control head. They do support the 1090ES protocol for ads-b "out" so this option would give you the minimum required equipment when ads-b becomes mandated (and meet ICAO requirements for flying outside the US). (of course this requirement could change by 2010). This option also gives you traffic. IF you go the UAT route, then you have ads-b "in" and "out". This gives you traffic (TIS-B), all weather(FIS-B) much like XM or WSI, plus your UAT communicates directly with other UAT airplanes so even if you are below radar coverage you will see other airplanes if they are ads-b equipped. If you fly in areas that have ads-b coverage now, then I'd highly suggest you go the UAT route with a standard transponder. With a mode S transponder, you will get TIS-B traffic in areas where it's offered but this system will not be upgraded and will be phased out making a standard mode S transponder no better than a standard cheap transponder. Garmin offers a 1090ES mode S transponder but it's much more expensive than a GTX330. The 1090ES (extended Squitter) transmits your gps position (and a few other things). every time your transponder is interogated. The ads-b coverage is growing daily and probably covers a lot more area right now than most people think. Pretty much the entire East coast, all of FL, all of S. CA, and a huge area of the Gulf of Mexico is currently active (much more of course across the US). I know this was a pretty quick answer to a sort of complex question but hope you get the idea. If you want to discuss it with me directly I'd be glad to. This was one of the areas that I worked on during my time at FAA HQ in DC. There are still a few questions as to what the final requirements will be for GA airplanes but a standard transponder plus a UAT will give you the best bang for the buck. If you want to wait for more UAT options, then just a standard transponder is the best option. If you have TCAD then you really don't need the mode-S transponder. Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: Dr. Weinsweig Sent: 07/21/11 07:50 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] mode s and ads-b compliance and upgrading transponders howdy all, my remote sl70 transponder(controlled by cnx80) has stopped working properly and i am going to modernize my transponder system. i have never really been real happy with remotely controlling the transponder. every once in a while the cnx80 would say "cannot command transponder" but with a reboot it would always work. we have made room for a transponder in the panel by removing a dvd screen in front of the copilot which was never used(seemed like a good idea at the time-thanks kirk hammersmith!). the plan is to put a gtx327 in the panel with the possibility of adding a 2nd (remote transponder to be controlled by the cnx80) down the road. as a backup. i have tcad and wsi weather. as best as i can tell the requirement for mode s and ads-b will not be in place until 2020. thus i really cannot see any justification to going with a more expensive transponder than the gtrx327 at this time as i don't need the tis capabilities of the gtx330 and my experience with avionics is that it is outdated almost by the time it is installed and who knows what will really happen with mode s and ads-b? am i correct in these assumptions or should i spend more cash for a higher end transponder with more capabilities? also, is it worth it to spend the cash and have a backup transponder now? suggestions? --========GMXBoundary145641311273681402226 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable David,=20    The mode S transponder Bill suggested cost is about $2300 incl= uding the control head or $1800 without control head.   They do s= upport the 1090ES protocol for ads-b "out" so this option would give you th= e minimum required equipment when ads-b becomes mandated (and meet ICAO req= uirements for flying outside the US). (of course this requirement could cha= nge by 2010).   This option also gives you traffic.  IF you go th= e UAT route, then you have ads-b "in" and "out".   This gives you= traffic (TIS-B), all weather(FIS-B) much like XM or WSI, plus your UAT com= municates directly with other UAT airplanes so even if you are below radar = coverage you will see other airplanes if they are ads-b equipped.  If = you fly in areas that have ads-b coverage now, then I'd highly suggest you = go the UAT route with a standard transponder.   With a mode S tra= nsponder, you will get TIS-B traffic in areas where it's offered but this s= ystem will not be upgraded and will be phased out making a standard mode S = transponder no better than a standard cheap transponder.  Garmin offer= s a 1090ES mode S transponder but it's much more expensive than a GTX330.&n= bsp; The 1090ES (extended Squitter) transmits your gps position (and a few = other things). every time your transponder is interogated.  The ads-b = coverage is growing daily and probably covers a lot more area right now tha= n most people think.  Pretty much the entire East coast, all of FL, al= l of S. CA, and a huge area of the Gulf of Mexico is currently active (much= more of course across the US).  
=20
=20 I know this was a pretty quick answer to a sort of complex question but hop= e you get the idea.  If you want to discuss it with me directly I'd be= glad to.  This was one of the areas that I worked on during my time a= t FAA HQ in DC.  There are still a few questions as to what the final = requirements will be for GA airplanes but a standard transponder plus a UAT= will give you the best bang for the buck.  If you want to wait for mo= re UAT options, then just a standard transponder is the best option.  = If you have TCAD then you really don't need the mode-S transponder.
= =20
=20 Ron
=20
=20

=20 =C2=A0

=20
=20

=20 ----- = Original Message -----

=20

=20 From: = Dr. Weinsweig

=20

=20 Sent: = 07/21/11 07:50 AM

=20

=20 To: lm= l@lancaironline.net

=20

=20 Subjec= t: [LML] mode s and ads-b compliance and upgrading transponders

=20
=20
=20
=20 
=20
howdy all,=20

my remote sl70 transponder(controlled by cnx80) has stopped working properl=
y and i am going to modernize my transponder system.  i have never really b=
een real happy with remotely controlling the transponder.  every once in a =
while the cnx80 would say "cannot command transponder" but with a reboot it=
 would always work.  we have made room for a transponder in the panel by re=
moving a dvd screen in front of the copilot which was never used(seemed lik=
e a good idea at the time-thanks kirk hammersmith!).=20

the plan is to put a gtx327 in the panel with the possibility of adding a 2=
nd (remote transponder to be controlled by the cnx80) down the road. as a b=
ackup.=20

i have tcad and wsi weather.  as best as i can tell the requirement for mod=
e s and ads-b will not be in place until 2020.  thus i really cannot see an=
y justification to going with a more expensive transponder than the gtrx327=
 at this time as i don't need the tis capabilities of the gtx330 and my exp=
erience with avionics is that it is outdated almost by the time it is insta=
lled and who knows what will really happen with mode s and ads-b?=20

am i correct in these assumptions or should i spend more cash for a higher =
end transponder with more capabilities?  also, is it worth it to spend the =
cash and have a backup transponder now?=20

suggestions?=20
=20
=20
=20
=20 --========GMXBoundary145641311273681402226--