X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 08:32:10 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from nm2-vm3.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([98.138.91.132] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with SMTP id 5056062 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 18 Jul 2011 21:03:53 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.138.91.132; envelope-from=randylsnarr@yahoo.com Received: from [98.138.90.51] by nm2.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jul 2011 01:03:16 -0000 Received: from [98.138.87.2] by tm4.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jul 2011 01:03:16 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1002.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jul 2011 01:03:16 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 538981.4338.bm@omp1002.mail.ne1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 52617 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Jul 2011 01:03:15 -0000 DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Message-ID:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=XSfKIRWOIe8Jcmuhg4gMeXz4SBGQcPlpJwRLEauNkmbwdQdi6bnni7DThbChJ4F8YDgoR18n5aljoaXH/z9I/yQKK6SZi7wH9glNpZGd2C9z94avwzJOS4xYVUpV2dxBSO+wykRe3yZvtdGwV/QVqdwMi21j+ceAoPDJVKc1mXk=; X-YMail-OSG: or0LJbYVM1mV293.S255EFuvWdGovevkknqL3Kv5zBr0RpI 32jNdccfEifc6rc6JYlKuPw.URk6V3pa3dafIPX31EIGRD091F0vTqsg8gjY USuq0zJVfMw5rkmQ7tT6L.0qC6zEjOi.28MuvdOWjP3HYHMkh7Iilz1vn3hm wXAwNh9z.kKboeVUJXM7K0vFGC3ZBGkMyqCg1Erp4Kz8M4oUXx2Y8k_uJntz UMPBEQqE7rwLH7MCzqQxjJBvf565BjrJAohrPjk4HUWaSRYczEkKlKxcIuOu zl_7veMCi.w3cYds.FgjVAMf1mZgTNlmw1JLzGQRbNQdLaGrYVU4sAxJENQ5 pIgbuO1wctXA.YnJ7M7Lv2sXKcjqouhhIx_zb0cGd_72MCCmceAHbd0PSOmP .oq5ch8qQExcsRw-- Received: from [76.8.220.21] by web111409.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 18 Jul 2011 18:03:15 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/14.0.3 YahooMailWebService/0.8.112.307740 X-Original-Message-ID: <1311037395.21086.YahooMailClassic@web111409.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> X-Original-Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 18:03:15 -0700 (PDT) From: randy snarr Subject: Re: [LML] Re: another Lancair X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1039879435-1311037395=:21086" --0-1039879435-1311037395=:21086 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I may do this with the "Tail Cam" one of these days. I will post it when I do.. Randy Snarr N694RS 235/320 "Flight by machines heavier than air is unpractical and insignificant, if n= ot utterly impossible" -Simon Newcomb, 1902 --- On Mon, 7/18/11, N20087 wrote: From: N20087 Subject: [LML] Re: another Lancair To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Monday, July 18, 2011, 10:26 AM Has anybody videoed the =C2=A0simulated engine out glide to landing maneuve= r in an lnc2=C2=A0If so, I think it would be a wonderful training aid to po= st to the forum Tom Sent from my iPad On Jul 17, 2011, at 8:25 PM, "Taylor, David" wro= te: Mike =E2=80=93 good to hear somebody talking about this and actually PRACTI= CING.=C2=A0 Lancairs require a commitment to training and/or practice and b= uilding of one=E2=80=99s flight skills ON A REGULAR BASIS.=C2=A0 If you don= =E2=80=99t think that=E2=80=99s fun, you probably should be flying a Cirrus= or something.=C2=A0 The number of times you have personally practiced a = =E2=80=9Cglide to landing=E2=80=9D is inversely proportional to your odds o= f becoming a fatality statistic =C2=A0in an engine out. =C2=A0David T.Legac= y =C2=A0From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf= Of MikeEasley@aol.com Sent: 07-17-11-Sun 10:11 To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: another Lancair =C2=A0Gliding your airplane to the groun= d and trying to hit your aim point about 1/3 down the runway is a very unna= tural looking exercise, especially in an airplane with high wing loading an= d a high stall speed.=C2=A0 In my ES, it's somewhat of a "non-event" with t= he big wings and no gear to deal with.=C2=A0 I still find it a challenge wi= th my average pilot skills and only about 300 hours in my ES to have it fee= l comfortable.=C2=A0 Combine that with the stress and IQ drop of a real eme= rgency and I figure I need to be really good at it during training to be ev= en close to competent in a real engine out, dead stick landing. During my t= raining, I'm glad I have an ES, not a IV!=C2=A0The FAA in its infinite wisd= om, set the stall speed for single engine certified aircraft at a slow enou= gh speed for average pilots to put the plane down off-airport and have that= event be survivable. (You don't often hear the words FAA and wisdom in the= same sentence) I'm sure they figured that single engine aircraft are more likel= y to lose all power compared to twins.=C2=A0 That's a tradeoff they felt wa= s wise for safety, even though it sacrifices some significant performance i= n cruise speed.=C2=A0 Designs have gotten better over the years and now you= can have a relatively fast airplane and still have a slow stall speed.=C2= =A0I believe the ES and the IV have the same wing design, but the ES is 40%= larger.=C2=A0 They use a very high lift airfoil at the root and a more ben= ign airfoil at the tip.=C2=A0 The root airfoil has a very quick change from= high lift to stall with a small change angle of attack. The airfoil transi= tions linearly from the=C2=A0root to the tip with 2 degrees of washout on t= he ES. (not totally sure about the washout on the IV). The theory is you wo= uld never put the inboard airfoil into a stall because the tips would stall= first.=C2=A0 As the stall moved inward the whole wing would stall before t= he nasty stall characteristics of the root ever came into play. So in a typical training = stall, Lancairs are pretty manageable, but in an emergency where you might = stretch a glide, not drop the nose quickly enough,=C2=A0or attempt a 180 ba= ck to the runway, a deep stall could occur and that's a different story.=C2= =A0The IV and the rest of the=C2=A0Lancair fleet are=C2=A0examples of aircr= aft that lean more towards performance by=C2=A0sacrificing the stall speed = and stall characteristics in exchange for cruise speed.=C2=A0 Less wing are= a, choice of airfoil, washout, empennage area, etc. can really increase the= performance=C2=A0in cruise, but it comes at a price on the slow end of the= performance envelope.=C2=A0 Too many pilots transitioning from single engi= ne certified aircraft to a Lancair don't take that difference seriously eno= ugh.=C2=A0Mike EasleyColorado Springs --0-1039879435-1311037395=:21086 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <= /tr>
I may do this with the "Tail Cam" one of thes= e days.
I will post it when I do..
Randy Snarr
N694RS
235/320
"Flight by machines heavier than a= ir is unpractical and insignificant, if not utterly impossible"
-= Simon Newcomb, 1902

--- On Mon, 7/18/11, N20087 <n20087@yah= oo.com> wrote:

From: N20087 <= n20087@yahoo.com>
Subject: [LML] Re: another Lancair
To: lml@lanca= ironline.net
Date: Monday, July 18, 2011, 10:26 AM

Has anybody videoed the  simulated engine out glide to = landing maneuver in an lnc2 If so, I think it would be a wonderful training aid to post to= the forum

Tom

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 17, 2011, at 8:25 PM, "Taylor, David" <dtaylor@crescentpark.com> wro= te:

Mike =E2=80=93 good to hear somebody talking = about this and actually PRACTICING.  Lancairs require a commitment to = training and/or practice and building of one=E2=80=99s flight skills ON A R= EGULAR BASIS.  If you don=E2=80=99t think that=E2=80=99s fun, you prob= ably should be flying a Cirrus or something.  The number of times you = have personally practiced a =E2=80=9Cglide to landing=E2=80=9D is inversely= proportional to your odds of becoming a fatality statistic  in an eng= ine out.

 

David T.

Legacy

 

= From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf = Of MikeEasley@aol.com=
Sent: 07-17-11-Sun 10:11
To: lml@lancaironline.net
= Subject: [LML] Re: another Lancair

 

Gliding your airplane to the ground and trying to hit = your aim point about 1/3 down the runway is a very unnatural looking exerci= se, especially in an airplane with high wing loading and a high stall speed= .  In my ES, it's somewhat of a "non-event" with the big wings and no = gear to deal with.  I still find it a challenge with my average pilot = skills and only about 300 hours in my ES to have it feel comfortable. = Combine that with the stress and IQ drop of a real emergency and I figure = I need to be really good at it during training to be even close to competen= t in a real engine out, dead stick landing. During my training, I'm glad I = have an ES, not a IV!

 

The FAA in its infinite wisdom, se= t the stall speed for single engine certified aircraft at a slow enough spe= ed for average pilots to put the plane down off-airport and have that event= be survivable. (You don't often hear the words FAA and wisdom in the same = sentence) I'm sure they figured that single engine aircraft are more likely= to lose all power compared to twins.  That's a tradeoff they felt was= wise for safety, even though it sacrifices some significant performance in= cruise speed.  Designs have gotten better over the years and now you = can have a relatively fast airplane and still have a slow stall speed.

 

I believe the ES and= the IV have the same wing design, but the ES is 40% larger.  They use= a very high lift airfoil at the root and a more benign airfoil at the tip.&n= bsp; The root airfoil has a very quick change from high lift to stall with = a small change angle of attack. The airfoil transitions linearly from the&n= bsp;root to the tip with 2 degrees of washout on the ES. (not totally sure = about the washout on the IV). The theory is you would never put the inboard= airfoil into a stall because the tips would stall first.  As the stal= l moved inward the whole wing would stall before the nasty stall characteri= stics of the root ever came into play. So in a typical training stall, Lanc= airs are pretty manageable, but in an emergency where you might stretch a g= lide, not drop the nose quickly enough, or attempt a 180 back to the r= unway, a deep stall could occur and that's a different story.

 

The IV and the rest of the Lancair fleet are examples of aircr= aft that lean more towards performance by sacrificing the stall speed = and stall characteristics in exchange for cruise speed.  Less wing are= a, choice of airfoil, washout, empennage area, etc. can really increase the= performance in cruise, but it comes at a price on the slow end of the= performance envelope.  Too many pilots transitioning from single engi= ne certified aircraft to a Lancair don't take that difference seriously eno= ugh.

 

Mike Easley=

Colorado Springs

--0-1039879435-1311037395=:21086--