X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 13:23:22 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from nskntmtas01p.mx.bigpond.com ([61.9.168.137] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with ESMTP id 4992714 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 24 May 2011 06:26:00 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=61.9.168.137; envelope-from=frederickmoreno@bigpond.com Received: from nskntotgx04p.mx.bigpond.com ([60.228.245.81]) by nskntmtas01p.mx.bigpond.com with ESMTP id <20110524102522.POKH24561.nskntmtas01p.mx.bigpond.com@nskntotgx04p.mx.bigpond.com> for ; Tue, 24 May 2011 10:25:22 +0000 Received: from Razzle ([60.228.245.81]) by nskntotgx04p.mx.bigpond.com with ESMTP id <20110524102517.IAF10983.nskntotgx04p.mx.bigpond.com@Razzle> for ; Tue, 24 May 2011 10:25:17 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Message-Id: <4DDB877F.000077.03152@RAZZLE> X-Original-Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 18:25:03 +0800 Content-Type: Multipart/related; charset="iso-8859-1"; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_RL3PCDO712S000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (6244788) From: "Frederick Moreno" X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-Original-To: "Lancair Mail (lml@lancaironline.net)" Subject: LIV choice of engine X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at nskntotgx04p.mx.bigpond.com from [60.228.245.81] using ID frederickmoreno@bigpond.com at Tue, 24 May 2011 10:25:15 +0000 X-SIH-MSG-ID: qB0yGdT3TFa2kTAvmTy2alorgFm6/gF5uMhSBI0wt0lHEVbFud/cQcK9cadE34bnxFoJYwr4bygwYaj0XI/bsNy6I75BWLDY5sI= --------------Boundary-00=_RL3PCDO712S000000000 Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_RL3P7NS712S000000000" --------------Boundary-00=_RL3P7NS712S000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "It's not the idea. It's the execution."=0D =0D Ted Noel=0D =0D I could not agree more. All the theoretical arguments seduced me (and others) into wasting time and money on a V-8 adaptation to the Lancair IV= =2E =0D =0D Product designers (I used to be one) learn time and again that customers = are highly inventive when it comes to developing ways to cause failures. If = it were not for the real world experiences, reliability would be much higher= =2E =0D =0D However, I have learned (and probably always knew, if I were not such a blind aviation optimist) that reliability comes from hundreds of units operating each for thousands of hours racking up millions of cumulative hours of fleet experience, all under the watchful eye of a closed cycle monitoring and corrective action system that quickly detects faults and immediately addresses them. =0D =0D One project can not test an engine enough to guarantee reliability. A company with very deep pockets and a good reputation can test the hell ou= t of the engine to assure a reasonable chance of success, good enough that=20 some launch customer will sign up for initial production. But customers find situations that the engine manufacturer did not dream of or test. =20 Consequently, only with large fleet experience and a an excellent feedbac= k system can you get the kind of high reliability we now take for granted. = =0D =0D Could someone take some liquid cooled V-8 (or 12 or 6) and make it reliab= le? Yes, if they can get hundreds of customers to shell out money and contin= ue the "test program" years after the initial phase is completed on the test stand and some early aircraft flights. There is no compelling reason t= o do this in general aviation with piston engines. It is one reason why piston engines have stagnated, and turbine engines keep creeping forward= , getting better and better. Millions of hours of operation, all closely watched. That is the key.=0D =0D Sadly, I believe there is no other way. =0D =0D Fred Moreno --------------Boundary-00=_RL3P7NS712S000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
"It's not the idea. It's the execution."
 
Ted Noel
 
I could not agree more.  All the theoretical  arguments se= duced me (and others) into wasting time and money on a V-8 adaptation to = the Lancair IV.
 
Product designers (I used to be one) learn time and again that custo= mers are highly inventive when it comes to developing ways to cause failu= res.  If it were not for the real world experiences, reliability wou= ld be much higher. 
 
However, I have learned (and probably always knew, if I were not suc= h a blind aviation optimist) that reliability comes from hundreds of unit= s operating each for thousands of hours racking up millions of cumulative= hours of fleet experience, all under the watchful eye of a closed cycle&= nbsp;monitoring and corrective action system that quickly detects faults = and immediately addresses them. 
 
One project can not test an engine enough to guarantee reliability.&= nbsp; A company with very deep pockets and a good reputation can test the= hell out of the engine to assure a reasonable chance of success, go= od enough that  some launch customer will sign up for initial produc= tion.  But customers find situations that the engine manufacturer di= d not dream of or test.   Consequently, only with lar= ge fleet experience and a an excellent feedback system can you get the ki= nd of high reliability we now take for granted.
 
Could someone take some liquid cooled V-8 (or 12 or 6) and make it r= eliable?  Yes, if they can get hundreds of customers to shell out mo= ney and continue the "test program" years after the initial phase is comp= leted on the test stand and some early aircraft flights.  =   There is no compelling reason to do this in general aviation with = piston engines.  It is one reason why piston engines have stagnated,= and turbine engines keep creeping  forward, getting better and bett= er.  Millions of hours of operation, all closely watched.  That= is the key.
 
Sadly, I believe there is no other way. 
 
Fred Moreno
--------------Boundary-00=_RL3P7NS712S000000000-- --------------Boundary-00=_RL3PCDO712S000000000 Content-Type: image/gif; name="sad.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <03051A8C-0248-4F41-BE79-09B37B63268F> R0lGODlhGQAZAOZ/AP3psvyiAdmDAfzNGMxmAP3mbvC7U/3VQh6l49XNuvzLRKqMTvCkBfGzFv7m m+KoatJ5IPvFIuicGQcmMfO1IuOdKfu7AmRrTP/22PzSM/3aK/zDAtXx/KF0Mf3agv////rMV/7p XPqzA9iFEvyZAfzTWwhTcdJ1EAACA/3jitR0Af746fnHPfnclf/99vzKAfP7/lrJ/tyWT9iHIeqm IuOTAth8Av3VctOXS/K/Qrjm+vS9APzVa/7nRSRqgXOkpdV7AfvRUfCqD/7mO/XHYM2IP+ajGuyc AuGVDtO2jd6RKPrfp5mhit6PAfCtAeitQP3dUM9tAeWZDt6KCOmXAfO2CeD1/dN3C//wvfrGEPu0 Ddh/CNV+Ffu+Dd6fYPbj0PPZwOazgO/PsPns4Pz28Om8kNmMQIbX/fPBAPPDDuzGoOSeAOGgUPyS Ad+WONGBMOfl3QU3T9+TG76YY4mAVPC4N/30e/vfX+eVCOmgDvm6Fr+CPPLOjcePTv/y0v///yH/ C05FVFNDQVBFMi4wAwEAAAAh+QQFCAB/ACwAAAAAGQAZAAAH/4B/goOEhYaHiImKgmNeEASQBBBm YmSLf2ReUXlEHp4eBlQqEGGKY29NHisurK0rDjQqZYkQNR5+Dg4YuxhYABgAQlFqhw9AJUtsdHRE DlgtCxc4ACkMUV+FX1FVLW4XKBMdQQ5XJigXSg4RRxCFXmsRBgQ+KHEdFCDzKCYdRBEWKsQQIrBD ixIzCFwg6COkTpEYCKzMQTLAAhUvg8AA2SACSAIdZziYYZCjiJUzOhLYeLHBSTtBYARwjMLByocP ZoTkeHPzg5UoLC0QyCjAgggCVjjAIHMiQogocD7A4EAg6FCYMkWo8JIgAY4pB0JUeNN1jgqrg75k FTEFiA0BA6h6hAghZ4uNKRZYMnhD6MQLESRIBNgwQMOQHj2GaBjwIoDgGhgHeUFjoU0bPUIERCIQ heKGwAGigCEEpgnHBiqi1GjAukEezVKyWGBnSMaOLhKkRMgApUCBEAcy6JkSQUQUgYXIjHjBQoGC A9CjQ1dAQcUDRF9GZAkCAkSJ7+BL5Nhq6kGaDDfSqwch4USpS2IqOKFAv8KUKGawXUobpn+YMmPs J+AhgQAAIfkEBQgAfwAsAAAAAAEAAQAABwOAf4EAIfkEBQgAfwAsAAAAAAEAAQAABwOAf4EAIfkE BQgAfwAsAAAAAAEAAQAABwOAf4EAIfkEBQgAfwAsBAAFABEADwAAB7SAf4J/Nzx+g4iJgjIQT4J8 M2xKin9cSw0EOYJ5S3JcinUOESN5ghkpIFeOgzMsKVBPU5VQKR54W38bfzZCQXchOTZ/M3Z2KXpR uoJybs0zSJUG0hJXToNqPz4/UYInCz9MSdyDb3tMikwLbwQ7iHkSKtB/d1FIFUjWilkRESwRGYKU /REhiAGScYIIABEiqI2IF3+EEBDAYIDFAVVqqMD1h4ogGg0EHYBCUsOfAUYoqVSAKBAAIfkEBQgA fwAsBAAEABAAEQAAB7mAf4J/LoOGh4NYfhiDAC2IAA8PM0SCj4h/M0oADFdBKVxCiE8nJR5/XA1/ W5hcNDw8fyMMsneHTgQRsX9PTRVPfwWCBBZHMxFBUAVKtDN2dgURrAzHEQe2DUFR0FDSTlQEIzYS MyqCJ3J1U6xAfwx5DUhAUoJBqzR1DVWCbYJVRkZoBDxkgQQJPEAIbFm4RQWBJiIEbfiTRwWeLoay MJhibhCFCIIyaBj5R0MEkIgUIDqA6U+JloICAQAh+QQFCAB/ACwAAAAAAQABAAAHA4B/gQAh+QQF CAB/ACwAAAAAAQABAAAHA4B/gQAh+QQFCAB/ACwEAAQAEAARAAAHu4B/gn8rg4aHgzc8foNYAIhL bDIQT4J8iIJuXEsNBDkOV3mIBgR1Dn8jogSYSjMsKX9PU39cUIciNkJBgjk2OTN/doJRGyJRcm7J M0i0Bs4SV38iBGo/Pj9/ESEnCz9MSVEvIipve0w4s38Vb0wLb3870lN5EirMf3d/SBVITi+CJARl iRCBRYQMt9q0YYAkCoGHD4EI2SDonxACAhgYqlJDxRZDNBoIOgCl5J8MA4xgOoBIAaY/IF4KCgQA IfkEBQgAfwAsBAAFABAADwAAB7GAf4J/RC0Yg4iJf2+Egi2CM4+DSidgIydBKVxcfDMnkoIQBHEd FIIXHRBRgxUnFygmewx/RT6wJ1yCI0lnVjFms31nCC4JJy+CHBwfH2ZCix86VlZRyH9WHDBkJ4JR cB8wHASDZkkJiglJfSrIFgJIKgR6glAEKhJSFoNtggMaQ0N6DEmk748WIQIQRUGSZdCGPw1URKnR oGKDPAIISEGEj16BAiEO/NEzRZHJPyIFBQIAIfkEBQgAfwAsBQAFABAADQAAB26Af4IODoKGh4h0 dIcLFzgAh24XKBMdfw5XJigXSoWGPiiIoCYdRIJKZgguCH1CgjEIVnNIfxZACTpnHIZFVmc6fzaH VoiCHx/FycpeCcoJc4YiU0A2AgOCIXJbNlOHJIg9hy+IesrXfyQByslHgQAh+QQFCAB/ACwAAAAA AQABAAAHA4B/gQAh+QQFCAB/ACwAAAAAAQABAAAHA4B/gQAh+QQFCAB/ACwAAAAAAQABAAAHA4B/ gQAh+QQFCAB/ACwAAAAAAQABAAAHA4B/gQAh+QQFCAB/ACwAAAAAAQABAAAHA4B/gQA7 --------------Boundary-00=_RL3PCDO712S000000000--