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Unfortunately, the comment period expired 4/23/11.
On 5/4/11 4:46 AM, "Tim Olson" <Tim@myrv10.com> wrote:
>I don't want to try to take y'all into the weeds too far,
>but this thread has been very enlightening and maddening
>to think of, and this week I also saw this link (see link
>below) regarding changes to passport applications they're
>trying to push through. It's just amazing that we allow
>our liberties to be infringed on in so many aspects, with
>unreasonable levels of regulation.
>I stuck a quote from the link under the link for you,
>but it may be an interesting read, for those of you who
>travel with your plane and use your passport occasionally.
>
>http://www.consumertraveler.com/today/state-dept-wants-to-make-it-harder-t
>o-get-a-passport/
>
>The U.S. Department of State is proposing a new Biographical
>Questionnaire for some passport applicants: The proposed new Form
>DS-5513 asks for all addresses since birth; lifetime employment history
>including employersı and supervisors names, addresses, and telephone
>numbers; personal details of all siblings; motherıs address one year
>prior to your birth; any ³religious ceremony² around the time of birth;
>and a variety of other information. According to the proposed form,
>³failure to provide the information requested may result in the denial
>of your U.S. passport application.²
>
>
>Tim
>
>
>On 5/3/2011 6:53 AM, swaid rahn wrote:
>> Hello All,
>> Rick and Jeff, could you please fwd a copy of your letters and a copy
>> of the CBP Guidelines. I would like to post them at our local airports
>> around Savannah Ga. and make a presentation at our EAA Chapter meeting
>> about our freedom encroachments.
>> Thanks,
>> Swaid
>>
>> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Rick Titsworth
>> <rtitsworth@mindspring.com <mailto:rtitsworth@mindspring.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Jeff, etal
>>
>> A minor account, for additional background
>>
>> Last summer (early August sometime shortly after Osh), I was
>> questioned by two CBP officers upon landing at MCD (Mackinac Island,
>> Michgan) on an otherwise routine non-stop solo local/domestic flight
>> from my homebase, Y47 in the Detroit area in my C172. They wanted
>> to see my ID, and ask a couple questions on where I was coming from,
>> if I had been out the country, etc. They asked if I had the
>> registration, but did not request that I pull it out of the plastic
>> pocket on the side panel. It was not much of an event, and the
>> questions were not very invasive. I did provide my ID and minimally
>> cooperative answers, all while I continued to tie-down, post flight,
>> and unload my bag. They were in casual plain cloths, but did show
>> me their IDıs and were cordial.
>>
>> In speaking with my wife who was waiting for me at the small airport
>> building, she indicated that they were waiting there before hand,
>> but also did the same to another plane that landed before me while
>> she was waiting so they were apparently not focusing on any
>> specific planes. Having overhead their conversation while she was
>> waiting, they were up there for a few days doing ³audits² a couple
>> hours a day, AND STAYING AT THE MACHINAC GRAND HOTEL (5 star
>> $400-600 per night, 2 night min). http://www.grandhotel.com
>> <http://www.grandhotel.com/> and enjoying the island.
>>
>> This is really a very unnecessary boondoggle
>>
>> MCD is a small (vacation/tourist) island 3 miles off the Michgan
>> shore only accessible by ferry/boat (or plane) and a fairly
>> expensive place to stay. The airport is within the state park
>> boundary, operated by the state, staffed by a park ranger who
>> records all tail numbers, and has a landing fee (but no services, no
>> fuel nor FBO). It is not a high volume airport (untowered), but can
>> by relatively busy on nice weekends in the summer. Needless to say,
>> this is probably the LAST place anyone would seek to bring a
>> fugitive into the country or any other potential nefarious
>> activity. There are tons of remote, unattended, and more easily
>> accessible airports in northern Mich, were you could probably land
>> (stop&go) from Canada, below radar coverage (since they canıt ever
>> provide flight following, nor radar vectors, below ~4,500ft). FYI,
>> there is even a bunch of Class G in the Mich Upper Peninsula also
>> (not just out west) so you can legally fly in IMC without an IFR
>> flight plan and not talking to anyone - if you believe in the big
>> sky theory (I didnıt say it was safe).
>>
>> Anyway the key point is, we donıt need to be paying for these hacks
>> to vacation at the GRAND in Aug while on the dole under the context
>> of CBP aviation audits! What a waste of our CBP funding/resources,
>> especially when thereıs a boarder that actually needs policing.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> p.s. Afterwards, I decided if I ever got stopped (audited) again, I
>> would politely have them right down their names, badge
>> numbers/credentials and office contact info for me, after showing
>> them my ID, but before considering answering additional questions.
>>
>> p.p.s I also plan on posting a copy of the CBP Guide to Law
>> Enforcement on the bulletin board of every airport I land at. That
>> should get some grass-roots pilots stirred up out there.
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:*Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net
>> <mailto:lml@lancaironline.net>] *On Behalf Of *vtailjeff@aol.com
>> <mailto:vtailjeff@aol.com>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, April 23, 2011 12:24 PM
>> *To:* lml@lancaironline.net <mailto:lml@lancaironline.net>
>> *Subject:* [LML] Re: beware, you may be searched!
>>
>> Guys & gals,
>>
>> We appreciate your help. This Constitutional problem with Customs
>> and Border Patrol (CBP) and similar Federal agencies has been
>> brewing for a while and will not go away overnight. American
>> citizens are not the bad guys. GA pilots are not terrorists. You may
>> recall the 12,500# Program that TSA wanted to extend to small
>> aircraft two years ago. It was successfully fought by many in GA.
>> But this win was a small one for us and we must be ever vigilant to
>> protect our freedom to fly.
>>
>> As a retired military officer and flier, I can tell you that CBP has
>> put together a large air force and intelligence network and is using
>> it against law abiding U.S. citizens. They are even advertising this
>> capability on their own website. Unfortunately, they appear to be
>> beyond the reach of our elected officials. The fax that we managed
>> to secure and post on this list shows us they view GA as a security
>> problem. As mentioned on an earlier post--they are not interested in
>> answering their bosses (us) questions regarding these intrusions on
>> our personal liberties. I have spent many hours researching this
>> issue and racked up numerous hours on the phone mustering support.
>> This latest attack on GA and our personal liberties occurred at my
>> home airport, involved a good friend of mine who now owns an
>> airplane I built, and was conducted at my hangar.
>>
>> Where we stand today: I have met with our local law enforcement
>> officials who have conducted these searches based on phone calls
>> from CBP. They are not happy with CBP. CBP has wasted a considerable
>> amount of their time and made them out to be the bad guys which they
>> are not. It will probably be a long time before CBP calls our local
>> police force. Make contact with your local police agencies and
>> advise them of this nonsense --an ounce of prevention is worth a
>> pound of cure. The LOBO Board has been reaching out to our friends
>> and allies in GA. I have contacted Congressman Sam Graves'
>> office---he is the chairman of the GA caucus in the House of
>> Representatives. Contact you Congressman and Senator, as well. I
>> have connected with Jim Campbell who has published the pilot's
>> account in www.aeronews.net <http://www.aeronews.net/>. Today, I
>> have had dialogue with AOPA and their VP for Operations, Mr. Craig
>> Spence who will be meeting with CBP next week about this issue. I
>> will ask him to invite our VP-- Bob Pastusek, COL USAF (ret.) to
>> attend. AOPA is now giving this issue their top priority. Please
>> give AOPA and Mr. Spence your support and respect. If you have
>> anything else to report post it here or send it to me directly at
>> vtailjeff@aol.com <mailto:vtailjeff@aol.com>. I would appreciate
>> hearing from anyone else who has had this sort of treatment from our
>> Federal employees-- remember ---they work for us.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Jeff Edwards
>>
>> President,
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kent <kent@tulsaconnect.com <mailto:kent@tulsaconnect.com>>
>> To: lml@lancaironline.net <mailto:lml@lancaironline.net>
>> Sent: Fri, Apr 22, 2011 12:56 pm
>> Subject: [LML] Re: beware, you may be searched!
>>
>> i passed the copy to a friend and here is what he wrote back:
>>
>> I just called that number, 866-247-2878 <tel:866-247-2878>.
>>
>> I was handed off to Tony Martinez <sp> who said he was an aviation
>> enforcement specialist at the Air and Marine Operations Center in
>> Riverside,
>> Calif.
>>
>> Based on the beeping I heard on the line, I assume the telephone
>> call was
>> recorded.
>>
>> He wanted to know who I was and who I represented or was "with."
>>
>> I gave him my first and last name and said I'm simply a pilot in
>> Florida.
>>
>> The Reader's Digest version of our conversation, taken from memory:
>>
>> I explained I had some questions about a document -- the one in
>> question --
>> and read its title to him.
>>
>> He asked where I got the document.
>>
>> I said someone gave it to me. More importantly, I added, several of
>> the six
>> document requirements are almost certainly incorrect, mentioning #5
>> (pilot's
>> logbook) and #6 (Form 337). I pointed out these aren't FAA
>>requirements.
>>
>> He said Form 337s are paperwork for modifications to the aircraft
>> and must
>> be in the aircraft.
>>
>> I said I thought the only Form 337 that must be carried in the
>> aircraft was
>> one for the installation of extra fuel tanks.
>>
>> He said I should contact the FAA with my concerns.
>>
>> I said this is a Dept of Homeland Security guide, not an FAA
>> document, so I
>> didn't think the appropriate action was to contact the FAA.
>>
>> He said he was more concerned about where I got the document.
>>
>> I explained I was worried I'd be confronted by law-enforcement
>> officers at
>> an airport and would run into problems because I wasn't carrying all
>> the
>> documents listed in the guide.
>>
>> He said this was a "guide" and "they'll be talking to us." Further
>> back-and-forth made me realize he meant the officers would be in
>> real-time
>> contact with Martinez's facility during such a confrontation.
>>
>> I said this might not be the case, and I mentioned the John and
>> Martha King
>> incident and one recently at a St. Louis airport, where the police
>> thought
>> the aircraft was carrying a federal fugitive when in fact it
>> contained a
>> lieutenant colonel in the Air Force Reserves who flew F22s.
>>
>> I asked who in the DHS I should contact to get the guide corrected.
>> He said
>> I could send my input to his facility.
>>
>> He again mentioned his concern about my having a copy of the doc.
>>
>> How do we push back against this? AOPA seems too distracted selling
>> wine to
>> act on our behalf.
>>
>> ----------------------------------
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> *From:*vtailjeff@aol.com <mailto:vtailjeff@aol.com>
>>
>> *To:*lml@lancaironline.net <mailto:lml@lancaironline.net>
>>
>> *Sent:*Thursday, April 21, 2011 10:10 PM
>>
>> *Subject:*[LML] Re: beware, you may be searched!
>>
>> Here is a copy of a fax CBP sent. See if you can find the
>> mistakes! I am a bit surprised they believe they can detain you
>> if you do not have your pilot logbook onboard. LOL!!!!
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bob Rickard <r.rickard@rcginc-us.com
>> <mailto:r.rickard@rcginc-us.com>>
>> To: lml@lancaironline.net <mailto:lml@lancaironline.net>
>> Sent: Wed, Apr 20, 2011 11:49 am
>> Subject: [LML] Re: beware, you may be searched!
>>
>> We were able to get a copy of the fax that was sent to the local
>> police. The ³Tip² came from Customs and Border Patrol in CA.
>> And the local Police chief was actually /apologetic /because he
>> knew it was bogus. The tip itself is BS. They made it up. IF
>> they had been watching me or investigating me they would have
>> known my wife was with me and not some dude. That is the only
>> part that is really a violation, they are making up an excuse to
>> get the locals excited, and then seeing what they find. Another
>> example was a guy accused of transporting computer chips that
>> were stolen. I can imagine them making up stories over the
>> coffee in the morning.
>>
>> How would the public react if any Fed agency routinely made up
>> tips so the cops would come to your house and want to search?
>> Imagine the news coverage. That is the same thing going on
>> here. If they have something on you, then absolutely go for
>> it. But they did not in the 3 cases we know about just at our
>> local airport.
>>
>> The lesson you derived is correct though. Know your rights, and
>> also know how you can help them do their job without violating
>> your rights. That is the best thing you can do (if innocent)
>> while saying the least amount possible.
>>
>> Bob R
>>
>> *From:*Lancair Mailing List [_mailto:lml@lancaironline.net_
>> <mailto:lml@lancaironline.net?>] *On Behalf Of *William Wilson
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 20, 2011 7:05 AM
>> *To:* _lml@lancaironline.net_ <mailto:lml@lancaironline.net>
>>
>> *Subject:* [LML] Re: beware, you may be searched!
>>
>> Seems pretty standard to me. They checked out a tip that proved
>> to be bogus. I don't see any rights violations here or anything
>> out of the ordinary.
>>
>> The main lesson IMO is that, while there are plenty of cops who
>> abuse power, for the most part if you behave in a civilized
>> manner and realize they are just trying to do their job, most of
>> them will treat you fairly. That seems to be what happened
>>here.
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Bob Rickard
>> <_r.rickard@rcginc-us.com_ <mailto:r.rickard@rcginc-us.com>>
>>wrote:
>>
>> Fellow LMLıers
>>
>> It seems inevitable that the govt will search you at some
>> point. Just some info on what happened to me yesterday, you can
>> hopefully use this to react appropriately for your situation.
>> This is the third incident just at our little airport in
>> Missouri of this happening..
>>
>> Bob Rickard
>>
>> IV-P
>>
>> On 18 April, 2011, I filed IFR from KGEU to K1H0 direct, with my
>> wife on board. At 0845L, I departed KGEU VFR and picked up my
>> filed IFR clearance to K1H0 at FL210 with ABQ center. The
>> flight was uneventful and I cancelled IFR approximately 10 miles
>> from K1H0 with St. Louis Approach and landed at 1443L. Upon
>> landing and taxi to my hanger (P3) at Creve Coeur Airport, I was
>> surrounded by 6 Maryland Heights Police cars and about 10
>> officers. I exited the plane and was approached by the
>> supervisor and asked if I had any identification. I produced my
>> military ID (I am a LtCol in the Air Force Reserve flying
>> F-22ıs) as well as my driverıs license, and asked the supervisor
>> what the problem was. He told me that he got a ³tip² from the
>> Federal Government that there may be a federal fugitive on board
>> by the name of Robert Mcrae. He wasnıt sure of the name and
>> asked me if I knew anyone by a name similar to that, to which I
>> answered ³no² to all. He also stated that he was surprised to
>> see a woman in the plane with me since his informant said there
>> would be two men in the plane. I inquired as to who would give
>> a tip like that, and he was vague. A this point my wife exited
>> the plane and was asked to produce her ID as well and was
>> questioned as to what we were doing and where we were going and
>> where we came from. It was apparent to the supervisor pretty
>> quickly that my wife and I were not federal fugitives as they
>> ran our IDıs, but he asked to search the airplane anyway. I
>> told him that I was aware of my rights and he could not search
>> anything without a warrant, and he was quick to add ³or your
>> permission² and ³I could have the dogs come out². (side note
>> they donıt need a warrant to have the dogs check out your
>> aircraft if the dogs find something and indicate, then they
>> have probable cause to search you without a warrant. If the
>> dogs find nothing they cannot search your aircraft until a
>> warrant is issued). I told him that I would play nice, had
>> nothing to hide, and that my plan was to take my belongings out
>> of the airplane and put them in my car to go home, and I would
>> allow him to see what I took out and visually see inside the
>> cockpit and baggage compartment, but I was not allowing a search
>> of the airplane. He agreed to this. I took my 2 pieces of
>> luggage out of the back and showed him the contents briefly (not
>> a complete search but opened up the zipper and showed clothes on
>> top) as well as the couple of vases we had bought in Phoenix and
>> lunch/sodas we had in the cockpit. They saw nothing of interest
>> and returned my wifeıs ID, but kept mine and made further
>> calls. The supervisor indicated ³Iım on overtime, I am outta
>> here² and left, but another officer checked with ³EPIC² (unsure
>> of the spelling) which he told me was an international
>> consortium that traded information on travel, etc. He told me
>> he was aware of my trip earlier this year to Mexico and the
>> Cayman Islands (honeymoon cruise) but there was nothing to get
>> me in trouble. He then returned my ID and let us go.
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> --
>>
>> For archives and unsub
>> _http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html_
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Swaid L. Rahn
>> Indigo Aviation, Inc.
>> 940 Mock Road
>> Springfield, Ga. 31329
>> Cell 912.655.0966
>>
>>
>
>
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>For archives and unsub
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