X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 19:38:44 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([71.74.56.125] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with ESMTP id 4964441 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 02 May 2011 15:47:04 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=71.74.56.125; envelope-from=kkellner1@new.rr.com X-Original-Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=ZtuXOl23UuD1yoJUTgnZ6i6Z5VPlPhPMWCeUNtN8OGA= c=1 sm=0 a=obLwkm3ISv3u5N1fLH+lKQ==:17 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=b90htUlic3jtmv4feikA:9 a=gJUrE5fyOocHH-gNu5MA:7 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=U8Ie8EnqySEA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=hG5x47Ag2N--Vhi5:21 a=DNDxiUdnxouu8W53:21 a=zSCqqTre-ZUC2Np3HgEA:9 a=N4qxxhQoYyaXHcqYA2UA:7 a=obLwkm3ISv3u5N1fLH+lKQ==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 70.92.78.168 Received: from [70.92.78.168] ([70.92.78.168:1249] helo=D4SSJS91) by hrndva-oedge03.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 88/8C-22479-41A0FBD4; Mon, 02 May 2011 19:46:28 +0000 X-Original-Message-ID: <6536685AD089432F9EC4A5F718C75432@D4SSJS91> From: "Ken" X-Original-To: , References: Subject: Re: Beware update X-Original-Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 14:46:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00D8_01CC08D7.B769D920" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6090 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D8_01CC08D7.B769D920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jeff, Thanks for all of your work. Keep those cards and letters coming. Count m= e in as a letter writer / congressman caller. Ken Kellner ----- Original Message -----=20 From: vtailjeff@aol.com=20 To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 12:00 PM Subject: re: Beware update As most of you on the list know we had an incident in April here in St. L= ouis where one of our own was "stopped" by local police based on a "tip" fr= om Customs and Border Patrol. Here is an update to that story: Bob Rickard (who was the individual stopped) and I have received more ema= ils from other Lancair pilots who have been stopped as well based on "tips"= from CBP. So this is not an isolated incident. I contacted AOPA, my congre= ssman's staff, and CBP themselves. AOPA's Craig Spence is presently working= this issue on our behalf. He already had ascheduled meeting with CBP on W= ednesday, so he brought this subject up. He said that CBP wants to be the n= ew "skycop". He conveyed our concerns to them --targeting GA for poloce se= arches and the issue of the fax that is sent to police agencies justifying = detaining pilots. Mr. Spence told them that the fax has errors on it and ag= reed to help them correct those. On the issue of tracking GA flights and de= taining pilots, Mr. Spence said the CBP is not budging. He believes we need= to take this to Congressional leaders --he said we are in for a long battl= e with CBP.=20 The day after Mr. Spence's meeting I received two phone calls from CBP (s= o it is true about smelly stuff rolling downhill). The first call was from = "Carlos" at CBP HQ. Carlos works in Gen. Mike Kostelnik's office in DC. Kos= telnik, a retired AF two star, is the head of the CBP Air and Marine Cente= r. Carlos wanted to know what our concerns were and I repeated that we did = not like getting stopped based on bogus information. He wanted to know how = I was certain CBP was behind these stops (he implied they had nothing to do= with it) and I said it was from information from the local police and the = fax AMOC sent to them. (Ah, the truth and evidence is so great) He was pre= tty agitated during our conversation and said if we were stopped and the po= lice questioned us then we should tell them what they wanted to know. I sai= d I disagreed (Fifth Amendment) . I gave him the specifics of Bobaloos stop= two weeks ago and he agreed to look into it. I said that in the best ligh= t their intell is either unvetted or their analyis is poor. He disagreed (o= f course) and gave many other reasons (all bogus) as to why their intel was= good. He said it could have been because the aircraft was a prior drug air= craft. I replied that would be pretty difficult since I built it, flew it a= nd then sold it to Col. Rickard. I said that in the worst light --their fol= ks are making up stories to get the local police to stop GA pilots--for the= crime of ....flying. Of course he about blew a gasket. I asked him to tel= l me where CBP got this information about Bob carrying a fugitive. He repli= ed that is a matter of national security and could not tell me.=20 A couple of hours later I receive a phone call from Tony C. at the CBP AM= OC in Riverside, CA asking again about my concerns. Again I expressed the s= ame and while he was very polite and cordial and appears to be a dedicated = public servant doing a tough job I reiterated that law abiding GA pilots do= not enjoy getting stopped by law enforcement based on seemingly bogus info= rmation. Tony said they are just trying to "put their eyes on people"--mean= ing us. I remarked that there has to be a better way of doing that than sur= rounding a pilot with 6 police cars and ten officers. He said they have to= ugh job catching bad guys. I said that that they need to do a better job s= creening their intel. It seemed both he and Carlos went back and forth on w= hether the intel came from internal sources or external ones. At one point = he said people were calling their hotline with tips -- so I challenged him = as to how someone would know the Mr. McCrae was on Bob's airplane and then = called them in Riverside to report it. The story seemed to change to they h= ad strong intel internally. Never an admission that they screwed up. Just m= ore reasons why their intel is solid. Even at one point denying it is their= intel-- "it comes from somewhere else-- they are just the middle man." Ton= y said they are all ex military and are all pilots so I pointed oujt that t= he fax has numerous errors and the FARs contains no language allowing deten= tion of a pilot for failing to have his medical or logbook on his person (= look for that to change as CBP will probably write criminal regulations re:= pilots) . The whole time I could hear a beep every ten seconds or so prob= ably indicating I was being recorded. Althoug Tony was pleasant there was n= o progress on this issue. None.=20 I spoke with my congressman's senior staffer as well. I relayed the detai= ls of the issue to her and she seemed sincerely interested. She said it is = best to generate a letter from our organizations (we are) and forward that = with a personal note to all of our congressmen. She said I should be caref= ull so that I don't become a target.=20 All for now.=20 Jeff "Bullseye" Edwards ------=_NextPart_000_00D8_01CC08D7.B769D920 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jeff,
 
Thanks for all of your work.  Keep those cards and letters=20 coming.  Count me in as a letter writer / congressman caller.
 
Ken Kellner
----- Original Message -----
Fro= m:=20 vtailjeff@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 12:00 P= M
Subject: re: Beware update


As most of you on the list know we had an incident in April here= in=20 St. Louis where one of our own was "stopped" by local police based on a "= tip"=20 from Customs and Border Patrol. Here is an update to that story:
 
Bob Rickard (who was the individual stopped) and I have received mor= e=20 emails from other Lancair pilots who have been stopped as well based on "= tips"=20 from CBP. So this is not an isolated incident. I contacted AOPA, my=20 congressman's staff, and CBP themselves. AOPA's Craig Spence is presently= =20 working this issue on our behalf. He already had ascheduled  meeting= with=20 CBP on Wednesday, so he brought this subject up. He said that CBP wants t= o be=20 the new "skycop".  He conveyed our concerns to them --targeting GA f= or=20 poloce searches and the issue of the fax that is sent to police agencies= =20 justifying detaining pilots. Mr. Spence told them that the fax has errors= on=20 it and agreed to help them correct those. On the issue of tracking GA fli= ghts=20 and detaining pilots, Mr. Spence said the CBP is not budging. He believes= we=20 need to take this to Congressional leaders --he said we are in for a long= =20 battle with CBP.
 
The day after Mr. Spence's meeting I received two phone calls from C= BP=20 (so it is true about smelly stuff rolling downhill). The first call was f= rom=20 "Carlos" at CBP HQ. Carlos works in Gen. Mike Kostelnik's office in DC.= =20 Kostelnik, a retired AF two star,  is the head of the CBP Air and Ma= rine=20 Center. Carlos wanted to know what our concerns were and I repeated that = we=20 did not like getting stopped based on bogus information. He wanted to kno= w how=20 I was certain CBP was behind these stops (he implied they had nothing to = do=20 with it) and I said it was from information from the local police and the= fax=20 AMOC sent to them. (Ah, the truth and evidence is so great)  He was= =20 pretty agitated during our conversation and said if we were stopped and t= he=20 police questioned us then we should tell them what they wanted to know. I= said=20 I disagreed (Fifth Amendment) . I gave him the specifics of Bobaloos stop= two=20 weeks ago and he agreed to look into it.  I said that in the best li= ght=20 their intell is either unvetted or their analyis is poor. He disagre= ed=20 (of course) and gave many other reasons (all bogus) as to why their intel= was=20 good. He said it could have been because the aircraft was a prior drug=20 aircraft. I replied that would be pretty difficult since I built it, flew= it=20 and then sold it to Col. Rickard. I said that in the worst light --their = folks=20 are making up stories to get the local police to stop GA pilots--for the = crime=20 of ....flying. Of course he about blew a gasket. I asked him to=20  tell me where CBP got this information about Bob carrying = ;a=20 fugitive. He replied that is a matter of national security and could not = tell=20 me.
 
A couple of hours later I receive a phone call from Tony C. at the C= BP=20 AMOC in Riverside, CA asking again about my concerns. Again I expressed t= he=20 same and while he was very polite and cordial and appears to be a dedicat= ed=20 public servant doing a tough job I reiterated that law abiding GA pilots = do=20 not enjoy getting stopped by law enforcement based on seemingly bogus=20 information. Tony said they are just trying to "put their eyes on=20 people"--meaning us. I remarked that there has to be a better way of= =20 doing that than surrounding a pilot with 6 police cars and ten officers. = He=20 said they have  tough job catching bad guys. I said that  that = they=20 need to do a better job screening their intel. It seemed both he and Carl= os=20 went back and forth on whether the intel came from internal sources or=20 external ones. At one point he said people were calling their hotline wit= h=20 tips -- so I challenged him as to how someone would know the Mr. McCrae w= as on=20 Bob's airplane and then called them in Riverside to report it. The story= =20 seemed to change to they had strong intel internally. Never an admission = that=20 they screwed up. Just more reasons why their intel is solid. Even at one = point=20 denying it is their intel-- "it comes from somewhere else-- they are just= the=20 middle man." Tony said they are all ex military and are all pilots so I= =20 pointed oujt that the fax has numerous errors and the FARs contains = no=20 language allowing detention of  a pilot for failing to have his medi= cal=20 or logbook on his person (look for that to change as CBP will probably wr= ite=20 criminal regulations re: pilots) . The whole time I could hear a&nbs= p;=20 beep every ten seconds or so probably indicating I was being recorded. Al= thoug=20 Tony was pleasant there was no progress on this issue. None.
 
I spoke with my congressman's senior staffer as well. I relayed the= =20 details of the issue to her and she seemed sincerely interested. She said= it=20 is best to generate a letter from our organizations (we are) and forward = that=20 with a personal note to all of our congressmen.  She said = I=20 should be carefull so that I don't become a target.
 
All for now.
 
Jeff "Bullseye" Edwards
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