X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 11:03:37 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imr-da06.mx.aol.com ([205.188.169.203] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with ESMTP id 4963707 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 01 May 2011 21:59:09 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.169.203; envelope-from=VTAILJEFF@aol.com Received: from imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (imo-ma04.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.139]) by imr-da06.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p421wP5o027059 for ; Sun, 1 May 2011 21:58:25 -0400 Received: from VTAILJEFF@aol.com by imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id q.ccf.7ac716f8 (43960) for ; Sun, 1 May 2011 21:58:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtprly-dc02.mx.aol.com (smtprly-dc02.mx.aol.com [205.188.170.2]) by cia-dd02.mx.aol.com (v129.10) with ESMTP id MAILCIADD021-d3864dbe0fb62e8; Sun, 01 May 2011 21:58:19 -0400 Received: from webmail-m005 (webmail-m005.sim.aol.com [64.12.101.88]) by smtprly-dc02.mx.aol.com (v129.10) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYDC026-d3864dbe0fb62e8; Sun, 01 May 2011 21:58:14 -0400 References: X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Beware update X-Original-Date: Sun, 01 May 2011 21:58:14 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 24.107.65.42 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: vtailjeff@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CDD6838862A82F_14EC_A953_webmail-m005.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 33636-STANDARD Received: from 24.107.65.42 by webmail-m005.sysops.aol.com (64.12.101.88) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sun, 01 May 2011 21:58:14 -0400 X-Original-Message-Id: <8CDD683885922AF-14EC-543B@webmail-m005.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: VTAILJEFF@aol.com ----------MB_8CDD6838862A82F_14EC_A953_webmail-m005.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Colyn, A letter we can all forward is forthcoming. CBP is a department within Hom= eland Security. Jeff -----Original Message----- From: Colyn Case To: lml@lancaironline.net Sent: Sun, May 1, 2011 7:54 pm Subject: [LML] Re: Beware update Jeff, thanks for doing all that. =20 Do you know what the purpose of the CBP calls was? It obviously was not= to make you feel more comfortable. So action on our part should be to write our Congressmen and include this= letter(s) that is in the works? Exactly where does CBP report to? e.g. who is their boss? Colyn On May 1, 2011, at 1:00 PM, vtailjeff@aol.com wrote: As most of you on the list know we had an incident in April here in St. Lo= uis where one of our own was "stopped" by local police based on a "tip" fr= om Customs and Border Patrol. Here is an update to that story: =20 Bob Rickard (who was the individual stopped) and I have received more emai= ls from other Lancair pilots who have been stopped as well based on "tips"= from CBP. So this is not an isolated incident. I contacted AOPA, my congr= essman's staff, and CBP themselves. AOPA's Craig Spence is presently worki= ng this issue on our behalf. He already had ascheduled meeting with CBP= on Wednesday, so he brought this subject up. He said that CBP wants to be= the new "skycop". He conveyed our concerns to them --targeting GA for po= loce searches and the issue of the fax that is sent to police agencies jus= tifying detaining pilots. Mr. Spence told them that the fax has errors on= it and agreed to help them correct those. On the issue of tracking GA fli= ghts and detaining pilots, Mr. Spence said the CBP is not budging. He beli= eves we need to take this to Congressional leaders --he said we are in for= a long battle with CBP.=20 =20 The day after Mr. Spence's meeting I received two phone calls from CBP (so= it is true about smelly stuff rolling downhill). The first call was from= "Carlos" at CBP HQ. Carlos works in Gen. Mike Kostelnik's office in DC.= Kostelnik, a retired AF two star, is the head of the CBP Air and Marine= Center. Carlos wanted to know what our concerns were and I repeated that= we did not like getting stopped based on bogus information. He wanted to= know how I was certain CBP was behind these stops (he implied they had no= thing to do with it) and I said it was from information from the local pol= ice and the fax AMOC sent to them. (Ah, the truth and evidence is so great= ) He was pretty agitated during our conversation and said if we were stop= ped and the police questioned us then we should tell them what they wanted= to know. I said I disagreed (Fifth Amendment) . I gave him the specifics= of Bobaloos stop two weeks ago and he agreed to look into it. I said tha= t in the best light their intell is either unvetted or their analyis is po= or. He disagreed (of course) and gave many other reasons (all bogus) as to= why their intel was good. He said it could have been because the aircraft= was a prior drug aircraft. I replied that would be pretty difficult since= I built it, flew it and then sold it to Col. Rickard. I said that in the= worst light --their folks are making up stories to get the local police= to stop GA pilots--for the crime of ....flying. Of course he about blew= a gasket. I asked him to tell me where CBP got this information about Bo= b carrying a fugitive. He replied that is a matter of national security an= d could not tell me.=20 =20 A couple of hours later I receive a phone call from Tony C. at the CBP AMO= C in Riverside, CA asking again about my concerns. Again I expressed the= same and while he was very polite and cordial and appears to be a dedicat= ed public servant doing a tough job I reiterated that law abiding GA pilot= s do not enjoy getting stopped by law enforcement based on seemingly bogus= information. Tony said they are just trying to "put their eyes on people"= --meaning us. I remarked that there has to be a better way of doing that= than surrounding a pilot with 6 police cars and ten officers. He said the= y have tough job catching bad guys. I said that that they need to do a= better job screening their intel. It seemed both he and Carlos went back= and forth on whether the intel came from internal sources or external one= s. At one point he said people were calling their hotline with tips -- so= I challenged him as to how someone would know the Mr. McCrae was on Bob's= airplane and then called them in Riverside to report it. The story seemed= to change to they had strong intel internally. Never an admission that th= ey screwed up. Just more reasons why their intel is solid. Even at one poi= nt denying it is their intel-- "it comes from somewhere else-- they are ju= st the middle man." Tony said they are all ex military and are all pilots= so I pointed oujt that the fax has numerous errors and the FARs contains= no language allowing detention of a pilot for failing to have his medica= l or logbook on his person (look for that to change as CBP will probably= write criminal regulations re: pilots) . The whole time I could hear a = beep every ten seconds or so probably indicating I was being recorded. Al= thoug Tony was pleasant there was no progress on this issue. None.=20 =20 I spoke with my congressman's senior staffer as well. I relayed the detail= s of the issue to her and she seemed sincerely interested. She said it is= best to generate a letter from our organizations (we are) and forward tha= t with a personal note to all of our congressmen. She said I should be ca= refull so that I don't become a target.=20 =20 All for now.=20 =20 Jeff "Bullseye" Edwards =3D=20 ----------MB_8CDD6838862A82F_14EC_A953_webmail-m005.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Colyn,
 
A letter we can all forward is forthcoming. CBP is a department withi= n Homeland Security.
 
Jeff



-----Original Message-----
From: Colyn Case <colyncase@earthlink.net>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: Sun, May 1, 2011 7:54 pm
Subject: [LML] Re: Beware update

Jeff, thanks= for doing all that.   

Do you know what the purpose of the CBP calls was?   It obviousl= y was not to make you feel more comfortable.

So action on our part should be to write our Congressmen and include= this letter(s) that is in the works?

Exactly where does CBP report to?  e.g. who is their boss?

Colyn

On May 1, 2011, at 1:00 PM, vtai= ljeff@aol.com wrote:


As most of you on the list know we had an incident in April here in St. Lo= uis where one of our own was "stopped" by local police based on a "tip" fr= om Customs and Border Patrol. Here is an update to that story:
 
Bob Rickard (who was the individual stopped) and I have received more= emails from other Lancair pilots who have been stopped as well based on= "tips" from CBP. So this is not an isolated incident. I contacted AOPA,= my congressman's staff, and CBP themselves. AOPA's Craig Spence is presen= tly working this issue on our behalf. He already had ascheduled  meet= ing with CBP on Wednesday, so he brought this subject up. He said that CBP= wants to be the new "skycop".  He conveyed our concerns to them --ta= rgeting GA for poloce searches and the issue of the fax that is sent to po= lice agencies justifying detaining pilots. Mr. Spence told them that the= fax has errors on it and agreed to help them correct those. On the issue= of tracking GA flights and detaining pilots, Mr. Spence said the CBP is= not budging. He believes we need to take this to Congressional leaders --= he said we are in for a long battle with CBP.
 
The day after Mr. Spence's meeting I received two phone calls from CB= P (so it is true about smelly stuff rolling downhill). The first call was= from "Carlos" at CBP HQ. Carlos works in Gen. Mike Kostelnik's office in= DC. Kostelnik, a retired AF two star,  is the head of the CBP Air an= d Marine Center. Carlos wanted to know what our concerns were and I repeat= ed that we did not like getting stopped based on bogus information. He wan= ted to know how I was certain CBP was behind these stops (he implied they= had nothing to do with it) and I said it was from information from the lo= cal police and the fax AMOC sent to them. (Ah, the truth and evidence is= so great)  He was pretty agitated during our conversation and said= if we were stopped and the police questioned us then we should tell them= what they wanted to know. I said I disagreed (Fifth Amendment) . I gave= him the specifics of Bobaloos stop two weeks ago and he agreed to look in= to it.  I said that in the best light their intell is either unv= etted or their analyis is poor. He disagreed (of course) and gave many oth= er reasons (all bogus) as to why their intel was good. He said it could ha= ve been because the aircraft was a prior drug aircraft. I replied that wou= ld be pretty difficult since I built it, flew it and then sold it to Col.= Rickard. I said that in the worst light --their folks are making up stori= es to get the local police to stop GA pilots--for the crime of ....flying.= Of course he about blew a gasket. I asked him to  tell me where=  CBP got this information about Bob carrying a fugitive. He repl= ied that is a matter of national security and could not tell me.
 
A couple of hours later I receive a phone call from Tony C. at the CB= P AMOC in Riverside, CA asking again about my concerns. Again I expressed= the same and while he was very polite and cordial and appears to be a ded= icated public servant doing a tough job I reiterated that law abiding GA= pilots do not enjoy getting stopped by law enforcement based on seemingly= bogus information. Tony said they are just trying to "put their eyes on= people"--meaning us. I remarked that there has to be a better way of= doing that than surrounding a pilot with 6 police cars and ten officers.= He said they have  tough job catching bad guys. I said that  th= at they need to do a better job screening their intel. It seemed both he= and Carlos went back and forth on whether the intel came from internal so= urces or external ones. At one point he said people were calling their hot= line with tips -- so I challenged him as to how someone would know the Mr.= McCrae was on Bob's airplane and then called them in Riverside to report= it. The story seemed to change to they had strong intel internally. Never= an admission that they screwed up. Just more reasons why their intel is= solid. Even at one point denying it is their intel-- "it comes from somew= here else-- they are just the middle man." Tony said they are all ex milit= ary and are all pilots so I pointed oujt that the fax has numerous errors= and the FARs contains no language allowing detention of  a pilo= t for failing to have his medical or logbook on his person (look for that= to change as CBP will probably write criminal regulations re: pilots)&nbs= p;. The whole time I could hear a  beep every ten seconds or so proba= bly indicating I was being recorded. Althoug Tony was pleasant there was= no progress on this issue. None.
 
I spoke with my congressman's senior staffer as well. I relayed the= details of the issue to her and she seemed sincerely interested. She said= it is best to generate a letter from our organizations (we are) and forwa= rd that with a personal note to all of our congressmen.  Sh= e said I should be carefull so that I don't become a target.
 
All for now.
 
Jeff "Bullseye" Edwards

=3D
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