X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 01 May 2011 18:51:20 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from snt0-omc3-s12.snt0.hotmail.com ([65.55.90.151] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with ESMTP id 4963559 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 01 May 2011 18:15:49 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.55.90.151; envelope-from=scottekeighan@sympatico.ca Received: from SNT129-W11 ([65.55.90.135]) by snt0-omc3-s12.snt0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Sun, 1 May 2011 15:15:15 -0700 X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: scottekeighan@sympatico.ca Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_d525f9d9-1333-4132-bcd7-9ec73887c1b5_" X-Originating-IP: [174.94.37.172] From: Scott E Keighan X-Original-To: Subject: RE: [LML] Re: Beware update X-Original-Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 22:15:14 +0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 May 2011 22:15:15.0288 (UTC) FILETIME=[3F358D80:01CC084D] --_d525f9d9-1333-4132-bcd7-9ec73887c1b5_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 I have been following with interest these CBP based incidents. As a Canadi= an looking from the outside in I see a government agency gone astray. The United States is slowing becomi= ng a communist state. I travel into the United States once or twice every week and have seen the security/= knowledge of your border agencies grow exponentially since 9/11. Big brother is watching more and more every= day. The CBP and TSA should be concentrating at the borders not within your own Country. I know there are= some bad guys within the U.S. but if the CBP is doing it's job they should have all been stopped before they = set foot on U.S. soil. =20 =20 I see too much power by one agency whom answers to no one all in the name o= f national security=2C pity. =20 Scott Keighan LIV To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun=2C 1 May 2011 13:00:37 -0400 From: vtailjeff@aol.com Subject: [LML] Re: Beware update As most of you on the list know we had an incident in April here in St. Lou= is where one of our own was "stopped" by local police based on a "tip" from= Customs and Border Patrol. Here is an update to that story: =20 Bob Rickard (who was the individual stopped) and I have received more email= s from other Lancair pilots who have been stopped as well based on "tips" f= rom CBP. So this is not an isolated incident. I contacted AOPA=2C my congre= ssman's staff=2C and CBP themselves. AOPA's Craig Spence is presently worki= ng this issue on our behalf. He already had ascheduled meeting with CBP on= Wednesday=2C so he brought this subject up. He said that CBP wants to be t= he new "skycop". He conveyed our concerns to them --targeting GA for poloc= e searches and the issue of the fax that is sent to police agencies justify= ing detaining pilots. Mr. Spence told them that the fax has errors on it an= d agreed to help them correct those. On the issue of tracking GA flights an= d detaining pilots=2C Mr. Spence said the CBP is not budging. He believes w= e need to take this to Congressional leaders --he said we are in for a long= battle with CBP.=20 =20 The day after Mr. Spence's meeting I received two phone calls from CBP (so = it is true about smelly stuff rolling downhill). The first call was from "C= arlos" at CBP HQ. Carlos works in Gen. Mike Kostelnik's office in DC. Koste= lnik=2C a retired AF two star=2C is the head of the CBP Air and Marine Cen= ter. Carlos wanted to know what our concerns were and I repeated that we di= d not like getting stopped based on bogus information. He wanted to know ho= w I was certain CBP was behind these stops (he implied they had nothing to = do with it) and I said it was from information from the local police and th= e fax AMOC sent to them. (Ah=2C the truth and evidence is so great) He was= pretty agitated during our conversation and said if we were stopped and th= e police questioned us then we should tell them what they wanted to know. I= said I disagreed (Fifth Amendment) . I gave him the specifics of Bobaloos = stop two weeks ago and he agreed to look into it. I said that in the best = light their intell is either unvetted or their analyis is poor. He disagree= d (of course) and gave many other reasons (all bogus) as to why their intel= was good. He said it could have been because the aircraft was a prior drug= aircraft. I replied that would be pretty difficult since I built it=2C fle= w it and then sold it to Col. Rickard. I said that in the worst light --the= ir folks are making up stories to get the local police to stop GA pilots--f= or the crime of ....flying. Of course he about blew a gasket. I asked him t= o tell me where CBP got this information about Bob carrying a fugitive. He= replied that is a matter of national security and could not tell me.=20 =20 A couple of hours later I receive a phone call from Tony C. at the CBP AMOC= in Riverside=2C CA asking again about my concerns. Again I expressed the s= ame and while he was very polite and cordial and appears to be a dedicated = public servant doing a tough job I reiterated that law abiding GA pilots do= not enjoy getting stopped by law enforcement based on seemingly bogus info= rmation. Tony said they are just trying to "put their eyes on people"--mean= ing us. I remarked that there has to be a better way of doing that than sur= rounding a pilot with 6 police cars and ten officers. He said they have to= ugh job catching bad guys. I said that that they need to do a better job s= creening their intel. It seemed both he and Carlos went back and forth on w= hether the intel came from internal sources or external ones. At one point = he said people were calling their hotline with tips -- so I challenged him = as to how someone would know the Mr. McCrae was on Bob's airplane and then = called them in Riverside to report it. The story seemed to change to they h= ad strong intel internally. Never an admission that they screwed up. Just m= ore reasons why their intel is solid. Even at one point denying it is their= intel-- "it comes from somewhere else-- they are just the middle man." Ton= y said they are all ex military and are all pilots so I pointed oujt that t= he fax has numerous errors and the FARs contains no language allowing deten= tion of a pilot for failing to have his medical or logbook on his person (= look for that to change as CBP will probably write criminal regulations re:= pilots) . The whole time I could hear a beep every ten seconds or so prob= ably indicating I was being recorded. Althoug Tony was pleasant there was n= o progress on this issue. None.=20 =20 I spoke with my congressman's senior staffer as well. I relayed the details= of the issue to her and she seemed sincerely interested. She said it is be= st to generate a letter from our organizations (we are) and forward that wi= th a personal note to all of our congressmen. She said I should be careful= l so that I don't become a target.=20 =20 All for now.=20 =20 Jeff "Bullseye" Edwards = --_d525f9d9-1333-4132-bcd7-9ec73887c1b5_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  =3B
I have been following with interest these CBP based incidents. =3B As a= Canadian looking from the outside in
I see a government agency gone astray. =3B The United States is slowing= becoming a communist state. =3B I travel
into the United States once or twice every week and have seen the security/= knowledge of your border agencies
grow exponentially =3Bsince 9/11. =3B Big brother is watching = =3Bmore and more every day. =3B =3BThe CBP and TSA should be
concentrating at the borders not within your own Country. =3B I know th= ere are some bad guys within the U.S. but
if the CBP =3Bis doing it's job they should have all been stopped befor= e they set foot on U.S. soil. =3B
 =3B
I see too much power by one agency whom answers to no one all in the name o= f national security=2C pity.
 =3B
Scott Keighan
LIV

To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: Sun=2C 1 May 2011 13:00:37 -0400
From= : vtailjeff@aol.com
Subject: [LML] Re: Beware update


As most of you on the list know we had an incident in April here i= n St. Louis where one of our own was "stopped" by local police based on a "= tip" from Customs and Border Patrol. Here is an update to that story:
 =3B
Bob Rickard (who was the individual stopped) and I have received more = emails from other Lancair pilots who have been stopped as well based on "ti= ps" from CBP. So this is not an isolated incident. I contacted AOPA=2C my c= ongressman's staff=2C and CBP themselves. AOPA's Craig Spence is presently = working this issue on our behalf. He already had ascheduled  =3Bmeeting= with CBP on Wednesday=2C so he brought this subject up. He said that CBP w= ants to be the new "skycop". =3B He conveyed our concerns to them --tar= geting GA for poloce searches and the issue of the fax that is sent to poli= ce agencies justifying detaining pilots. Mr. Spence told them that the fax = has errors on it and agreed to help them correct those. On the issue of tra= cking GA flights and detaining pilots=2C Mr. Spence said the CBP is not bud= ging. He believes we need to take this to Congressional leaders --he said w= e are in for a long battle with CBP.
 =3B
The day after Mr. Spence's meeting I received two phone calls from CBP= (so it is true about smelly stuff rolling downhill). The first call was fr= om "Carlos" at CBP HQ. Carlos works in Gen. Mike Kostelnik's office in DC. = Kostelnik=2C a retired AF two star=2C  =3Bis the head of the CBP Air an= d Marine Center. Carlos wanted to know what our concerns were and I repeate= d that we did not like getting stopped based on bogus information. He wante= d to know how I was certain CBP was behind these stops (he implied they had= nothing to do with it) and I said it was from information from the local p= olice and the fax AMOC sent to them. (Ah=2C the truth and evidence is so gr= eat)  =3BHe was pretty agitated during our conversation and said if we = were stopped and the police questioned us then we should tell them what the= y wanted to know. I said I disagreed (Fifth Amendment) . I gave him the spe= cifics of Bobaloos stop two weeks ago and he agreed to look into it. = =3B I said that in the best light their intell is either =3Bunvetted or= their analyis is poor. He disagreed (of course) and gave many other reason= s (all bogus) as to why their intel was good. He said it could have been be= cause the aircraft was a prior drug aircraft. I replied that would be prett= y difficult since I built it=2C flew it and then sold it to Col. Rickard. I= said that in the worst light --their folks are making up stories to get th= e local police to stop GA pilots--for the crime of ....flying. Of course he= about blew a gasket. I =3Basked him to  =3Btell me where =3BCB= P got this information about Bob carrying =3Ba fugitive. He replied tha= t is a matter of national security and could not tell me.
 =3B
A couple of hours later I receive a phone call from Tony C. at the CBP= AMOC in Riverside=2C CA asking again about my concerns. Again I expressed = the same and while he was very polite and cordial and appears to be a dedic= ated public servant doing a tough job I reiterated that law abiding GA pilo= ts do not enjoy getting stopped by law enforcement based on seemingly bogus= information. Tony said they are just trying to "put their eyes on people"-= -meaning us. I remarked that there has to be =3Ba better way of doing t= hat than surrounding a pilot with 6 police cars and ten officers. He said t= hey have =3B tough job catching bad guys. I said that =3B that they= need to do a better job screening their intel. It seemed both he and Carlo= s went back and forth on whether the intel came from internal sources or ex= ternal ones. At one point he said people were calling their hotline with ti= ps -- so I challenged him as to how someone would know the Mr. McCrae was o= n Bob's airplane and then called them in Riverside to report it. The story = seemed to change to they had strong intel internally. Never an admission th= at they screwed up. Just more reasons why their intel is solid. Even at one= point denying it is their intel-- "it comes from somewhere else-- they are= just the middle man." Tony said they are all ex military and are all pilot= s so I pointed oujt that the fax has numerous errors and the FARs =3Bco= ntains no language allowing detention of =3B a pilot for failing to hav= e his medical or logbook on his person (look for that to change as CBP will= probably write criminal regulations re: pilots) =3B. The whole time I = could hear a =3B beep every ten seconds or so probably indicating I was= being recorded. Althoug Tony was pleasant there was no progress on this is= sue. None.
 =3B
I spoke with my congressman's senior staffer as well. I relayed the de= tails of the issue to her and she seemed sincerely interested. She said it = is best to generate a letter from our organizations (we are) and forward th= at with a personal note to =3Ball of our congressmen. =3B =3BSh= e said I should be carefull so that I don't become a target.
 =3B
All for now.
 =3B
Jeff "Bullseye" Edwards
 = --_d525f9d9-1333-4132-bcd7-9ec73887c1b5_--