X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 10:47:23 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail-yi0-f52.google.com ([209.85.218.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with ESMTPS id 4960559 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 28 Apr 2011 10:41:30 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.218.52; envelope-from=mwsletten@gmail.com Received: by yih10 with SMTP id 10so1120016yih.25 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2011 07:40:55 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer :content-language:thread-index; b=lDzJRr+4GLJnb4FvXE4ah2+lhS1yjLuDr6pldmW0OR/ec6K0p6o73NjVvz1WRElTaV cKFbzu19vKHmEUAFqnBE1HZea/eO6aXksNCe9DuQeT++Kuf+uPOd2MOAKnnrhQcxIxsW kR0kO7az7wPArOwMTClZfbS2VwjKj7agQrknA= Received: by 10.236.80.104 with SMTP id j68mr2525828yhe.197.1304001654808; Thu, 28 Apr 2011 07:40:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from MarkDesktop (hld-main-204-13-115-88.hld.hometel.com [204.13.115.88]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 45sm892998yhl.2.2011.04.28.07.40.50 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 28 Apr 2011 07:40:51 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mark Sletten" X-Original-To: X-Original-Cc: "'Bob Rickard'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: beware, you may be searched! X-Original-Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 09:41:04 -0500 X-Original-Message-ID: <003f01cc05b2$4ec0fd90$ec42f8b0$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AcwFAhbzROdvNeCGSL61iT2rqf+jnwAoBFjQAAQDAlA= Here's an article that's well worth reading on this subject: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/04/the-civil-liberties-prim ary-what-issues-matter-most/237920/ -- Mark -----Original Message----- From: Mark Sletten [mailto:mwsletten@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 9:21 AM To: 'lml@lancaironline.net' Cc: 'Bob Rickard' Subject: RE: beware, you may be searched! Bob, To me, this is the to-be-expected outcome of increased "cooperation" between the security and law enforcement agencies of government, and the resulting confluence and confusion of their differing priorities and duties. Homeland Security is responsible for providing border and transportation security, but it doesn't really have enough people to do all the leg work. If it did we wouldn't have an illegal immigration problem of the magnitude we do. So, in this new era of interagency "cooperation," DHS enlists the aid of law enforcement. It appears, at least in the case of the incidents we're concerned with, the DHS neglects to tell the local officers involved precisely who or what it is they are looking for, so officers on the scene follow their usual modus operandi, which means rather than sticking to simply determining if the people ("suspects" in the eyes of law enforcement) pose a security risk, they also take the opportunity to look for contraband to bolster possible future criminal court proceedings. Why waste valuable law enforcement time if you don't at least look for evidence of a crime? This troubling mix and match of missions and priorities between agencies is coloring many different areas of citizen/government interaction, but mostly in the transportation arena. The TSA loves to trumpet how TSA/Law Enforcement cooperation results in nabbing criminals, even though the TSA is not a law enforcement agency. Indeed, the newest plan is joint Customs/TSA/Law Enforcement task forces. You can watch a local news cast from Tampa about one set up there: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIL4shjagjI&feature=player_embedded This assumption of responsibility beyond authority seems to be getting more and more common as our national "War on Terror" drags on. It became infuriatingly apparent in an incident (again in Saint Louis... hmmmmm) that occurred on March 29, 2009. According to the ACLU, Steven Bierfeldt was detained in a small room at Lambert-St. Louis International Airport and interrogated by TSA officials for nearly half an hour after screening agents discovered a metal box containing some $6,000 in cash among his carry-on belongings. Bierfeldt had attended a political event in Saint Louis, and was carrying the cash in connection with his duties as the Director of Development for Congressman Ron Paul's Campaign for Liberty. The law does not require travelers to declare cash amounts below $10,000, so when the agents questioned Bierfeldt about the source and purpose of the money, he quite correctly pointed out it was really none of TSA's business -- especially given a box of cash poses no immediate security risk or other danger to traveling passengers. Apparently, the agents disagreed. Bierfeldt was able to surreptitiously record the incident using his phone, and you can listen to what happened here: http://www.aclu.org/files/multimedia/bierfeldt.mp3 Given we are really only a small segment of the population, and given our relative affluence one not generally in favor at present, it's unlikely stories detailing how the government is treating GA pilots and their passengers will make any headway with the mainstream media. (That may change now that President Obama has released his long-form birth certificate, what else have they got to talk about now?) While it's clear to me that our nation's security does not rest on constant suspicion, search and supervision of a tiny segment of the population, it's also just as clear the government -- for whatever reason -- has determined our outrage and inconvenience is an acceptable tradeoff. So how do we change that determination? I believe it will only change when people begin to see that it's not just GA that is being targeted. What is happening to us is part of an overall shift in the way US citizens view their government's capability, responsibility and limitations in "providing for the common defense." The changes causing this shift are happening in very small increments, each of which when viewed in isolation appears imminently reasonable, but when considered in their totality are alarming in my opinion. Unless and until the general population becomes incensed enough to demand fundamental changes, I see only two avenues with any hope of success in changing the way government is treating GA: 1) top cover from our legislators in Washington, and 2) the courts. As for the first, I'm encouraging everyone reading this list to contact your national representation in DC with your concerns. On the second, perhaps it's time someone considered contacting the ACLU; this is precisely the kind of case the ACLU was founded to handle. -- Mark -----Original Message----- From: Bob Rickard [mailto:r.rickard@rcginc-us.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 12:40 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] Re: beware, you may be searched! Hamid- As the guy who was searched upon landing, I can assure you that what you surmise is incorrect. First of all, if you were at your home airport and saw a guy that looked like a guy, etc...who would you call - customs and border patrol? I think not. Probably the local police, maybe the FBI if you were feeling brash. Additionally, why would CBP have any jurisdiction whatsoever on a flight that started and ended well inside the US border? Are they tracking families in RV's traveling from Phoenix to St. Louis too? Thirdly, on the wild assumption that anyone was present, surveilling me, and convinced enough to assume I was carrying a male fugitive (which was the accusation from CBP, even though my wife was the only passenger), the local or federal authorities would certainly have not let me take off or even get in an airplane. The fact is there was no local tip. As it was, the CBP office contacted the local police 10 minutes prior to my filed landing time (a 4 hour flight) and faxed them the bogus info, with no other awareness of my flight other than my flight plan data. And CBP certainly does not have persons who travel inside our own borders searching people out like this on a whim, else we might have turned into the soviet union. So the fact remains that they are totally caught in a lie, and we should try to do something about it as a community. I would agree with your point in principle if there were not mitigating circumstances, but it's pretty clear in this case. Bob R On Apr 26, 2011, at 7:37 PM, Hamid Wasti wrote: > vtailjeff@aol.com wrote: >> How would a Federal CBP officer in California know a Lancair pilot taking off from an airport in Phoenix had a fugitive onboard? Answer -- he didn't-- he just made it up to justify an unlawful search to the local police in St. Louis. > While the story being totally made up is quite possible, do not discount the possibility that the CBP may be acting on a tip and may have initiated the action. > > One of the down sides of the increased emphasis on recruiting the general public as the government's eyes and ears and offering rewards is a lot more false and misleading tips. While many of these are offered in good faith by people who do not know any better, some are offered on the slim chance of scoring a reward. > > It often starts out as "That guy I caught a glimpse of 100 yards away may look like the one they showed on TV last night" followed either by "Better call it in and let the police make sure" or "Better call it in because in the remote chance I am right it will get me $$$$$" > When the police get involved, their primary objective is self preservation. The officer that handles the report knows that if it turns out that a vigilant citizen turned in a wanted person but he is the one who did not follow it up, his career is over. He will therefore pass it up the chain with only minimal investigation and the process will repeat a few times till the case falls in the lap of the officers that meet the aircraft after landing. > > At every step that the information gets passed from one person to another, it gets embellished to justify the escalation, so that what started out as "Did the guy glimpsed from 100 yards away look like the picture I saw on 23:00 news as I was dozing off?" turns into "Person was positively identified getting into the aircraft armed with a dozen rifles and 2,000 pounds of drugs" > > But the truth in these specific incident will never be known unless someone actually get charged with something or someone is willing to file a civil suit and fight it to the point of getting into the discovery process. > > Regards, > > Hamid > > -- > For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html