X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 07:51:19 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imr-da05.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.147] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with ESMTP id 4957296 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 25 Apr 2011 22:41:46 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.105.147; envelope-from=vtailjeff@aol.com Received: from mtaout-mb01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-mb01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.65]) by imr-da05.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p3Q2f6TS028076 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2011 22:41:06 -0400 Received: from [10.13.218.17] (mobile-166-137-142-202.mycingular.net [166.137.142.202]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mtaout-mb01.r1000.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPSA id 325A4E0008E4; Mon, 25 Apr 2011 22:41:01 -0400 (EDT) References: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPad Mail 8C148) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-1--939054298 X-Original-Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: iPad Mail (8C148) From: vtailjeff@aol.com Subject: Re: [LML] Re: beware, you may be searched! X-Original-Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 21:40:54 -0500 X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:384022720:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d29414db630bd46c4 X-AOL-IP: 166.137.142.202 --Apple-Mail-1--939054298 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Scott, The point I have been making is two fold. One, the CBP is lying to local pol= ice agencies to get them out to the airport to apprehend, arrest, and detain= pilots. How would a Federal CBP officer in California know a Lancair pilot t= aking off from an airport in Phoenix had a fugitive onboard? Answer -- he di= dn't-- he just made it up to justify an unlawful search to the local police i= n St. Louis. Three pilots at my airport in two years, including placement of= a camera at our airport to watch us guilty pilots coming and going. Lying i= s not probable cause. Two, the CFRs cited below do not constitute a legal requirement on to detain= anyone. In 40 years of flying I have never seen anyone ask for any of these= documents. Now all of a sudden CBP is using these documents to justify deta= ining pilots until they can get a drug dog to search your aircraft. CBP beli= eves GA aircraft are a security threat to America. Btw I am at KARR this week at Luminair. Jeff Sent from my iPad On Apr 25, 2011, at 12:13 PM, Sky2high@aol.com wrote: > Jeff, et al, > =20 > Examining the AMOC document and aside from obvious errors: > =20 > Items 1-4 are fairly correct. > =20 > 5. The clear intention of Title 14 section 61.51 1 Presentation of Require= d Documents has to be taken in context - While the pilot must respond to a "= reasonable request" to produce a pilot's logbook, this section further and s= pecifically states that the logbook of a student, sport or recreational pilo= t must be carried in the aircraft. There is no such specificity for other p= ilot licenses. > =20 > 6. The claim made here is correctly clarified later in that Title 14 secti= on 91.417(c) only requires a 337 be carried if it refers to a fuel tank inst= alled in the cockpit or baggage area. > =20 > ***Caveat*** is more interesting.=20 > Reasonable detention is open to interpretation. It has been held that det= aining someone stopped for a traffic violation until drug dogs could be obta= ined was not reasonable=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.. This is probably why i= s says "Canine Unit on the scene." > =20 > Clarification of warrant/probable cause: > =20 > The Supreme Court has created a special exception to the warrant requireme= nt for a mobile conveyance. Mobile conveyances are cars, trucks, boats, moto= rcycles, airplanes, riding lawn mowers, golf carts, baby carriages, etc. >=20 > There are three requirements that have to be met in order to search a vehi= cle. >=20 > First, the vehicle has to be in a public place. The mobile conveyance exce= ption to the warrant requirement doesn=E2=80=99t apply if a car is in a gara= ge or on the curtilage of a home. Hangar? >=20 > Second, the vehicle has to be readily mobile. This means the vehicle must a= ppear to be operational to a reasonable person; however, it=E2=80=99s not ne= cessary that the vehicle be moving or even occupied. >=20 > Third, there has to be probable cause to believe that contraband or eviden= ce of a crime will be located in the vehicle. >=20 > If all three of those requirements are met the court will excuse the requi= rement that the officer obtain a warrant. >=20 > The mobile conveyance exception excuses the warrant requirement; It doesn=E2= =80=99t excuse the probable cause requirement. > =20 > Good Luck! > =20 > Scott Krueger --Apple-Mail-1--939054298 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Scott,

The poi= nt I have been making is two fold. One, the CBP is lying to local police age= ncies to get them out to the airport to apprehend, arrest, and detain pilots= . How would a Federal CBP officer in California know a Lancair pilot taking o= ff from an airport in Phoenix had a fugitive onboard? Answer -- he didn't-- h= e just made it up to justify an unlawful search to the local police in St. L= ouis. Three pilots at my airport in two years, including placement of a came= ra at our airport to watch us guilty pilots coming and going. Lying is not p= robable cause.

Two, the CFRs cited below do not con= stitute a legal requirement on to detain anyone. In 40 years of flying I hav= e never seen anyone ask for any of these documents. Now all of a sudden CBP i= s using these documents to justify detaining pilots until they can get a dru= g dog to search your aircraft. CBP believes GA aircraft are a security threa= t to America.

Btw I am at KARR this week at Luminai= r.

Jeff

Sent from my iPad
<= br>On Apr 25, 2011, at 12:13 PM, Sky2hig= h@aol.com wrote:

=
Jeff, et al,
 
Examining the AMOC document and aside from obvious errors:
 
Items 1-4 are fairly correct.
 
5. The clear intention of Title 14 section 61.51 1 Presentation of Requ= ired=20 Documents has to be taken in context - While the pilot must respon= d to=20 a "reasonable request" to produce a pilot's logbook, this section furth= er=20 and specifically states that the logbook of a student, sport or=20 recreational pilot must be carried in the aircraft.  There is no such=20= specificity for other pilot licenses.
 
6. The claim made here is correctly clarified later in that Title 1= 4=20 section 91.417(c) only requires a 337 be carried if it refers to a fuel tank= =20 installed in the cockpit or baggage area.
 
***Caveat*** is more interesting. =20

Reasonable det= ention is=20 open to interpretation.  It ha= s been=20 held that detaining someone stopped for a traffic violation until drug dogs=20= could be obtained was not reasonable=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6..  This= is probably why is says=20 "Canine Unit on the scene."

 

Clarification o= f=20 warrant/probable cause:

 

The Su= preme=20 Court has created a special exception to the warrant requirement for a mobile con= veyance. Mobile conveyances are=20 cars, trucks, boats, motorcycles, airplanes, riding lawn mowers, golf carts,= =20 baby carriages, etc.

There a= re=20 three requirements that have to be met in order to search a vehicle.=20

First,= the=20 vehicle has to be in a public place. The mobile conveyance exception to the warrant=20 requirement doesn=E2=80=99t apply if a car is in a garage or on the curtilag= e of a home.=20 Hangar?

Second= , the=20 vehicle has to be readily mobile. This means the vehicle must=20 appear to be operational to a reasonable person; however, it=E2=80=99s not n= ecessary=20 that the vehicle be moving or even occupied.

Third,= there=20 has to be probable cause to believe that contraband or evidence of a crime w= ill=20 be located in the vehicle.

If all= three=20 of those requirements are met the court will excuse the requirement that the= =20 officer obtain a warrant.

The=20 mobil= e conveyance exce= ption excuses the warrant=20 requirement; It doesn=E2=80=99t excuse the probable cause requirement= .

 

Good Luck!

=

 

Scott=20 Krueger

= --Apple-Mail-1--939054298--