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Subject: Re: [LML] Re: beware, you may be searched!
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Danny,

Can you call me re: this issue?

Best Regards,

Jeff Edwards
314-308-6719


-----Original Message-----
From: Danny Miller <danny.miller@verizon.net>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:10 pm
Subject: [LML] Re: beware, you may be searched!


I'm with you on this, Karen.  Offer no information, answer no questions,=
 and
llow no search without proper authority.  Doing so ALWAYS has the potentia=
l
o come back and bite your ass really hard!  I won't go into the details bu=
t
his is the voice of a very bad experience talking.
Danny Miller
 38=C2=B0 43' 25.7"
 77=C2=B0 30' 38.6"

----Original Message-----
rom: Karen Farnsworth [mailto:farnsworth@charter.net]=20
ent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 3:00 PM
o: lml@lancaironline.net
ubject: FW: [LML] Re: beware, you may be searched!


illiam,
=20
To each his own, but I see a little more in this than you do. This seems=
 to
e happening more and more; acting on bad information. The case that drew
he most attention was the King incident. Handcuffed and treated quite
udely.
=20
When you stand on you right to not have your airplane searched without a
arrant they say things like, "if you have nothing to hid why won't you let
e search"?=20
=20
To me this is part of the trend to allow the government to be all and know
ll.
=20
I will tell them, "no warrant, no search".
=20
Lynn Farnsworth
=20
________________________________
From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of
illiam Wilson
ent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 08:05
o: lml@lancaironline.net
ubject: [LML] Re: beware, you may be searched!
=20
Seems pretty standard to me.  They checked out a tip that proved to be
ogus.  I don't see any rights violations here or anything out of the
rdinary.
The main lesson IMO is that, while there are plenty of cops who abuse powe=
r,
or the most part if you behave in a civilized manner and realize they are
ust trying to do their job, most of them will treat you fairly.  That seem=
s
o be what happened here.
On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Bob Rickard <r.rickard@rcginc-us.com>
rote:
Fellow LML'ers
=20
It seems inevitable that the govt will search you at some point.  Just som=
e
nfo on what happened to me yesterday, you can hopefully use this to react
ppropriately for your situation.  This is the third incident just at our
ittle airport in Missouri of this happening...
=20
Bob Rickard
IV-P
=20
On 18 April, 2011, I filed IFR from KGEU to K1H0 direct, with my wife on
oard.  At 0845L, I departed KGEU VFR and picked up my filed IFR clearance
o K1H0 at FL210 with ABQ center.  The flight was uneventful and I cancelle=
d
FR approximately 10 miles from K1H0 with St. Louis Approach and landed at
443L.  Upon landing and taxi to my hanger (P3) at Creve Coeur Airport, I
as surrounded by 6 Maryland Heights Police cars and about 10 officers.  I
xited the plane and was approached by the supervisor and asked if I had an=
y
dentification.  I produced my military ID (I am a LtCol in the Air Force
eserve flying F-22's) as well as my driver's license, and asked the
upervisor what the problem was.  He told me that he got a "tip" from the
ederal Government that there may be a federal fugitive on board by the nam=
e
f Robert Mcrae.  He wasn't sure of the name and asked me if I knew anyone
y a name similar to that, to which I answered "no" to all.  He also stated
hat he was surprised to see a woman in the plane with me since his
nformant said there would be two men in the plane.  I inquired as to who
ould give a tip like that, and he was vague.  A this point my wife exited
he plane and was asked to produce her ID as well and was questioned as to
hat we were doing and where we were going and where we came from.   It was
pparent to the supervisor pretty quickly that my wife and I were not
ederal fugitives as they ran our ID's, but he asked to search the airplane
nyway.  I told him that I was aware of my rights and he could not search
nything without a warrant, and he was quick to add "or your permission" an=
d
I could have the dogs come out".  (side note - they don't need a warrant=
 to
ave the dogs check out your aircraft - if the dogs find something and
ndicate, then they have probable cause to search you without a warrant. =
 If
he dogs find nothing they cannot search your aircraft until a warrant is
ssued).  I told him that I would play nice, had nothing to hide, and that
y plan was to take my belongings out of the airplane and put them in my ca=
r
o go home, and I would allow him to see what I took out and visually see
nside the cockpit and baggage compartment, but I was not allowing a search
f the airplane.  He agreed to this. I took my 2 pieces of luggage out of
he back and showed him the contents briefly (not a complete search but
pened up the zipper and showed clothes on top) as well as the couple of
ases we had bought in Phoenix and lunch/sodas we had in the cockpit.  They
aw nothing of interest and returned my wife's ID, but kept mine and made
urther calls.  The supervisor indicated "I'm on overtime, I am outta here"
nd left, but another officer checked with "EPIC" (unsure of the spelling)
hich he told me was an international consortium that traded information on
ravel, etc.  He told me he was aware of my trip earlier this year to Mexic=
o
nd the Cayman Islands (honeymoon cruise) but there was nothing to get me=
 in
rouble.  He then returned my ID and let us go.
=20
=20


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or archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html


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<font color=3D'black' size=3D'2' face=3D'arial'>
<div><FONT face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Danny,</FONT></div>


<div>&nbsp;</div>


<div>Can you call me re: this issue?</div>


<div>&nbsp;</div>


<div>Best Regards,</div>


<div>&nbsp;</div>


<div>Jeff Edwards</div>


<div>314-308-6719<br>
<br>
</div>


<div style=3D"CLEAR: both"></div>
<br>
<br>


<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica"=
>-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Danny Miller &lt;danny.miller@verizon.net&gt;<br>
To: lml@lancaironline.net<br>
Sent: Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:10 pm<br>
Subject: [LML] Re: beware, you may be searched!<br>
<br>


<div id=3DAOLMsgPart_0_95cbd24a-a82f-4d4b-aeab-b9f7b82b08c6 style=3D"FONT-=
SIZE: 12px; MARGIN: 0px; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial,=
 Sans-Serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff"><PRE style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><TT>I'm=
 with you on this, Karen.  Offer no information, answer no questions, and
allow no search without proper authority.  Doing so ALWAYS has the potenti=
al
to come back and bite your ass really hard!  I won't go into the details=
 but
this is the voice of a very bad experience talking.

Danny Miller
N 38=C2=B0 43' 25.7"
W 77=C2=B0 30' 38.6"


-----Original Message-----
From: Karen Farnsworth [<A href=3D"mailto:farnsworth@charter.net?">mailto:=
farnsworth@charter.net</A>]=20
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 3:00 PM
To: <A href=3D"mailto:lml@lancaironline.net">lml@lancaironline.net</A>
Subject: FW: [LML] Re: beware, you may be searched!


William,

=20

To each his own, but I see a little more in this than you do. This seems=
 to
be happening more and more; acting on bad information. The case that drew
the most attention was the King incident. Handcuffed and treated quite
rudely.

=20

When you stand on you right to not have your airplane searched without a
warrant they say things like, "if you have nothing to hid why won't you le=
t
me search"?=20

=20

To me this is part of the trend to allow the government to be all and know
all.

=20

I will tell them, "no warrant, no search".

=20

Lynn Farnsworth

=20

________________________________

From: Lancair Mailing List [<A href=3D"mailto:lml@lancaironline.net?">mail=
to:lml@lancaironline.net</A>] On Behalf Of
William Wilson
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 08:05
To: <A href=3D"mailto:lml@lancaironline.net">lml@lancaironline.net</A>
Subject: [LML] Re: beware, you may be searched!

=20

Seems pretty standard to me.  They checked out a tip that proved to be
bogus.  I don't see any rights violations here or anything out of the
ordinary.

The main lesson IMO is that, while there are plenty of cops who abuse powe=
r,
for the most part if you behave in a civilized manner and realize they are
just trying to do their job, most of them will treat you fairly.  That see=
ms
to be what happened here.

On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Bob Rickard &lt;<A href=3D"mailto:r.ricka=
rd@rcginc-us.com">r.rickard@rcginc-us.com</A>&gt;
wrote:

Fellow LML'ers

=20

It seems inevitable that the govt will search you at some point.  Just som=
e
info on what happened to me yesterday, you can hopefully use this to react
appropriately for your situation.  This is the third incident just at our
little airport in Missouri of this happening...

=20

Bob Rickard

IV-P

=20

On 18 April, 2011, I filed IFR from KGEU to K1H0 direct, with my wife on
board.  At 0845L, I departed KGEU VFR and picked up my filed IFR clearance
to K1H0 at FL210 with ABQ center.  The flight was uneventful and I cancell=
ed
IFR approximately 10 miles from K1H0 with St. Louis Approach and landed at
1443L.  Upon landing and taxi to my hanger (P3) at Creve Coeur Airport, I
was surrounded by 6 Maryland Heights Police cars and about 10 officers. =
 I
exited the plane and was approached by the supervisor and asked if I had=
 any
identification.  I produced my military ID (I am a LtCol in the Air Force
Reserve flying F-22's) as well as my driver's license, and asked the
supervisor what the problem was.  He told me that he got a "tip" from the
Federal Government that there may be a federal fugitive on board by the na=
me
of Robert Mcrae.  He wasn't sure of the name and asked me if I knew anyone
by a name similar to that, to which I answered "no" to all.  He also state=
d
that he was surprised to see a woman in the plane with me since his
informant said there would be two men in the plane.  I inquired as to who
would give a tip like that, and he was vague.  A this point my wife exited
the plane and was asked to produce her ID as well and was questioned as to
what we were doing and where we were going and where we came from.   It wa=
s
apparent to the supervisor pretty quickly that my wife and I were not
federal fugitives as they ran our ID's, but he asked to search the airplan=
e
anyway.  I told him that I was aware of my rights and he could not search
anything without a warrant, and he was quick to add "or your permission"=
 and
"I could have the dogs come out".  (side note - they don't need a warrant=
 to
have the dogs check out your aircraft - if the dogs find something and
indicate, then they have probable cause to search you without a warrant.=
  If
the dogs find nothing they cannot search your aircraft until a warrant is
issued).  I told him that I would play nice, had nothing to hide, and that
my plan was to take my belongings out of the airplane and put them in my=
 car
to go home, and I would allow him to see what I took out and visually see
inside the cockpit and baggage compartment, but I was not allowing a searc=
h
of the airplane.  He agreed to this. I took my 2 pieces of luggage out of
the back and showed him the contents briefly (not a complete search but
opened up the zipper and showed clothes on top) as well as the couple of
vases we had bought in Phoenix and lunch/sodas we had in the cockpit.  The=
y
saw nothing of interest and returned my wife's ID, but kept mine and made
further calls.  The supervisor indicated "I'm on overtime, I am outta here=
"
and left, but another officer checked with "EPIC" (unsure of the spelling)
which he told me was an international consortium that traded information=
 on
travel, etc.  He told me he was aware of my trip earlier this year to Mexi=
co
and the Cayman Islands (honeymoon cruise) but there was nothing to get me=
 in
trouble.  He then returned my ID and let us go.

=20

=20


--
For archives and unsub <A href=3D"http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/l=
ml/List.html" target=3D_blank>http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/L=
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