X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 14:59:48 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail-gw0-f52.google.com ([74.125.83.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with ESMTPS id 4952335 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 14:39:10 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.125.83.52; envelope-from=ronlaughlin@gmail.com Received: by gwj15 with SMTP id 15so290248gwj.25 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 11:38:35 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:references:from:content-type:x-mailer:in-reply-to :message-id:date:to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; b=lRtHezOLCKbk3tLRklMmN7rSY5+TJeBDCgsX/odxz/GLyAGibXtLtxY++kt3d8sYT4 C+l4uQva5xpbNTdH2vQx1exeu2p4ziNILCoCwaVtPCK0IGuSt51cgXxL8080RC83T322 ajABu9mx34L5P55hQHCD85aXT7+6mU/aHOYoU= Received: by 10.236.195.6 with SMTP id o6mr6779157yhn.318.1303324715621; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 11:38:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from [10.75.239.241] ([166.205.8.20]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h44sm532349yhm.46.2011.04.20.11.38.32 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 20 Apr 2011 11:38:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [LML] Re: beware, you may be searched! References: From: Ron Laughlin Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-1-747479531 X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (8G4) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Message-Id: <5E27B2F4-5078-47FD-9194-F6E1A4E4E9AA@gmail.com> X-Original-Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 13:38:23 -0500 X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPhone Mail 8G4) --Apple-Mail-1-747479531 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Yeah. That's what I thought too. Threatening to "bring the dogs out" was int= entional intimidation and completely unnecessary IMO. It was already obviou= s that their intel was bad by that point. They were just on a fishing exped= ition and didn't want to be inconvenienced by trivial notions like the Bill= of Rights.=20 Ron On Apr 20, 2011, at 11:49 AM, vtailjeff@aol.com wrote: > Have you heard of the Fourth Amendment? >=20 > Sent from my iPad >=20 > On Apr 20, 2011, at 7:05 AM, William Wilson wrote:= >=20 >> Seems pretty standard to me. They checked out a tip that proved to be bo= gus. I don't see any rights violations here or anything out of the ordinary= . >>=20 >> The main lesson IMO is that, while there are plenty of cops who abuse pow= er, for the most part if you behave in a civilized manner and realize they a= re just trying to do their job, most of them will treat you fairly. That se= ems to be what happened here. >>=20 >> On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Bob Rickard wr= ote: >> Fellow LML=E2=80=99ers >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> It seems inevitable that the govt will search you at some point. Just so= me info on what happened to me yesterday, you can hopefully use this to reac= t appropriately for your situation. This is the third incident just at our l= ittle airport in Missouri of this happening=E2=80=A6.. >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> Bob Rickard >>=20 >> IV-P >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> On 18 April, 2011, I filed IFR from KGEU to K1H0 direct, with my wife on b= oard. At 0845L, I departed KGEU VFR and picked up my filed IFR clearance to= K1H0 at FL210 with ABQ center. The flight was uneventful and I cancelled I= FR approximately 10 miles from K1H0 with St. Louis Approach and landed at 14= 43L. Upon landing and taxi to my hanger (P3) at Creve Coeur Airport, I was s= urrounded by 6 Maryland Heights Police cars and about 10 officers. I exited= the plane and was approached by the supervisor and asked if I had any ident= ification. I produced my military ID (I am a LtCol in the Air Force Reserve= flying F-22=E2=80=99s) as well as my driver=E2=80=99s license, and asked th= e supervisor what the problem was. He told me that he got a =E2=80=9Ctip=E2= =80=9D from the Federal Government that there may be a federal fugitive on b= oard by the name of Robert Mcrae. He wasn=E2=80=99t sure of the name and as= ked me if I knew anyone by a name similar to that, to which I answered =E2=80= =9Cno=E2=80=9D to all. He also stated that he was surprised to see a woman i= n the plane with me since his informant said there would be two men in the p= lane. I inquired as to who would give a tip like that, and he was vague. A= this point my wife exited the plane and was asked to produce her ID as well= and was questioned as to what we were doing and where we were going and whe= re we came from. It was apparent to the supervisor pretty quickly that my w= ife and I were not federal fugitives as they ran our ID=E2=80=99s, but he as= ked to search the airplane anyway. I told him that I was aware of my rights= and he could not search anything without a warrant, and he was quick to add= =E2=80=9Cor your permission=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9CI could have the dogs com= e out=E2=80=9D. (side note =E2=80=93 they don=E2=80=99t need a warrant to h= ave the dogs check out your aircraft =E2=80=93 if the dogs find something an= d indicate, then they have probable cause to search you without a warrant. I= f the dogs find nothing they cannot search your aircraft until a warrant is i= ssued). I told him that I would play nice, had nothing to hide, and that my= plan was to take my belongings out of the airplane and put them in my car t= o go home, and I would allow him to see what I took out and visually see ins= ide the cockpit and baggage compartment, but I was not allowing a search of t= he airplane. He agreed to this. I took my 2 pieces of luggage out of the ba= ck and showed him the contents briefly (not a complete search but opened up t= he zipper and showed clothes on top) as well as the couple of vases we had b= ought in Phoenix and lunch/sodas we had in the cockpit. They saw nothing of= interest and returned my wife=E2=80=99s ID, but kept mine and made further c= alls. The supervisor indicated =E2=80=9CI=E2=80=99m on overtime, I am outta= here=E2=80=9D and left, but another officer checked with =E2=80=9CEPIC=E2=80= =9D (unsure of the spelling) which he told me was an international consortiu= m that traded information on travel, etc. He told me he was aware of my tri= p earlier this year to Mexico and the Cayman Islands (honeymoon cruise) but t= here was nothing to get me in trouble. He then returned my ID and let us go= . >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >>=20 --Apple-Mail-1-747479531 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Yeah. That's what I thought too. Threat= ening to "bring the dogs out" was intentional intimidation and completely un= necessary IMO.  It was already obvious that their intel was bad  b= y that point. They were just on a fishing expedition and didn't want to be &= nbsp;inconvenienced by trivial notions like the Bill of Rights. 
Ron

On Apr 20, 2011, at 11:49 AM, vtailjeff@aol.com wrote:

Have you heard of the Fourth Amendment?

Sent f= rom my iPad

On Apr 20, 2011, at 7:05 AM, William Wilson <fluffysheap@gmail.com> wrote:

Seems pretty standard to me.  They checked out a= tip that proved to be bogus.  I don't see any rights violations here o= r anything out of the ordinary.

The main lesson IMO is that, while th= ere are plenty of cops who abuse power, for the most part if you behave in a= civilized manner and realize they are just trying to do their job, most of t= hem will treat you fairly.  That seems to be what happened here.

On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Bob Rickard <= span dir=3D"ltr"><= r.rickard@rcginc-us.com> wrote:

Fellow LML=E2=80=99ers

 

It seems inevitable that the govt will search you at s= ome point.  Just some info on what happened to me yesterday, you can hopefully use this t= o react appropriately for your situation.  This is the third incident jus= t at our little airport in Missouri of this happening=E2=80=A6..

 

Bob Rickard

IV-P

 

On 18 April, 2011, I filed IFR from KGEU to K1H0 dire= ct, with my wife on board.  At 0845L, I departed KGEU VFR and picked up my filed IFR clearance to K1H0 at FL210 with ABQ center.  The flight was uneventful and I cancelled IFR approximately 10 miles from K1H0 with St. Lou= is Approach and landed at 1443L.  Upon landing and taxi to my hanger (P3) a= t Creve Coeur Airport, I was surrounded by 6 Maryland Heights Police cars and about 10 officers.  I exited the plane and was approached by the supervisor and asked if I had any identification.  I produced my milita= ry ID (I am a LtCol in the Air Force Reserve flying F-22=E2=80=99s) as well as m= y driver=E2=80=99s license, and asked the supervisor what the problem was.  He told me tha= t he got a =E2=80=9Ctip=E2=80=9D from the Federal Government that there may be= a federal fugitive on board by the name of Robert Mcrae.  He wasn=E2=80=99= t sure of the name and asked me if I knew anyone by a name similar to that, to= which I answered =E2=80=9Cno=E2=80=9D to all.  He also stated that he w= as surprised to see a woman in the plane with me since his informant said there= would be two men in the plane.  I inquired as to who would give a tip l= ike that, and he was vague.  A this point my wife exited the plane and was asked to produce her ID as well and was questioned as to what we were doing a= nd where we were going and where we came from.   It was apparent to t= he supervisor pretty quickly that my wife and I were not federal fugitives as t= hey ran our ID=E2=80=99s, but he asked to search the airplane anyway.  I to= ld him that I was aware of my rights and he could not search anything without a= warrant, and he was quick to add =E2=80=9Cor your permission=E2=80=9D and =E2= =80=9CI could have the dogs come out=E2=80=9D.  (side note =E2=80=93 they don=E2= =80=99t need a warrant to have the dogs check out your aircraft =E2=80=93 if the dog= s find something and indicate, then they have probable cause to search you without a warrant.  If the dogs find nothing they cannot search your aircraft until a warrant is issued).  I told him that I would play nice= , had nothing to hide, and that my plan was to take my belongings out of the airplane and put them in my car to go home, and I would allow him to see wha= t I took out and visually see inside the cockpit and baggage compartment, but I w= as not allowing a search of the airplane.  He agreed to this. I took my 2 pieces of luggage out of the back and showed him the contents briefly (not a= complete search but opened up the zipper and showed clothes on top) as well a= s the couple of vases we had bought in Phoenix and lunch/sodas we had in the cockpit.  They saw nothing of interest and returned my wife=E2=80=99s I= D, but kept mine and made further calls.  The supervisor indicated =E2=80=9CI=E2=80=99m on overtime, I am outta here=E2=80=9D and left, but ano= ther officer checked with =E2=80=9CEPIC=E2=80=9D (unsure of the spelling) which he told m= e was an international consortium that traded information on travel, etc.  He= told me he was aware of my trip earlier this year to Mexico and the Cayman Islands (honeymoon cruise) but there was nothing to get me in trouble. = He then returned my ID and let us go.

 


= --Apple-Mail-1-747479531--