X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 21:56:21 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from carbinge.com ([69.5.27.218] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with SMTP id 4949920 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 18 Apr 2011 13:00:18 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=69.5.27.218; envelope-from=jbarrett@carbinge.com Received: (qmail 27130 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2011 16:59:45 -0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.235.58.63] Reply-To: From: "John Barrett" X-Original-To: "'Lancair Mailing List'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [LML] Re: 360 carbon/racing gear doors X-Original-Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 09:59:43 -0700 X-Original-Message-ID: <014801cbfdea$043a3810$0caea830$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0149_01CBFDAF.57DB6010" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Acv94xKASygkYKQLShmvb2bciI1ZpwABsuVg Content-Language: en-us This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0149_01CBFDAF.57DB6010 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you can determine which direction the doors are distorting and/or = vibrating, you can use uni-directional graphite with better results. =20 John Barrett =20 From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = PAUL HERSHORIN Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 9:10 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: 360 carbon/racing gear doors =20 I have the outback gear doors--when building my plane I added a layer of = carbon fiber cloth to all doors on the inside. By doing this it made = the doors strong enough so that they do not bend and they pull up tight = when closed. I have never had any vibration or noise out of the doors. Paul Hershorin 360 471LA --- On Sun, 4/17/11, Danny Miller wrote: From: Danny Miller Subject: [LML] Re: 360 carbon/racing gear doors To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sunday, April 17, 2011, 11:13 AM Louis, You=E2=80=99re not alone in these questions. If answers and comments = come to you directly rather than through LML, please share. =20 Danny Miller N 38=C2=B0 43' 25.7" W 77=C2=B0 30' 38.6" =20 From: Louis Gabriel [mailto:louis@gabriels.us]=20 Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 8:24 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: 360 carbon/racing gear doors =20 First, thanks for being such a great community--I'm brand new to both = general aviation and the Lancair game, and I have never encountered a = more patient and willing-to-answer-dumb-questions bunch. I was hoping = you might oblige me once more: I am a new owner of a Lancair 360 Mk II with outback gear...and I've = been plagued with gear door problems. None of these are new or = unsolved, but almost every piece of advice on the LML and otherwise = (namely n91cz.com ) suggests the solution is a set = of three-piece, carbon fiber gear doors. Where do they come from? How do I get a set? For some (perhaps unnecessary) background, here are the problems I'm = having: 1. Inner gear door flutter. When the gear is extended, the inner gear = doors move around quite a bit in the prop wash (wearing out the hinge = pin). I've mostly solved this by replacing the flimsy aluminum hinge = with stainless steel, but I still have some qualms about the permanence = of my solution. 2. High speed buffet. I've found that the trailing edge of my left = inner gear door does not hold very effectively against either the = airframe or the outer door, which above about 180 kts will occasionally = start to buffet and buzz rather alarmingly. After determining this = noise was not the imminent end of my flying career, I found slowing = down, cycling the gear (just enough to reseat the inner doors), then = speeding back up solved my problem. Upon swinging the gear, it's = apparent the trailing edge of the inner gear door is the issue. 3. Drag. Even on the jack stands, there is quite a bit of undercarriage = material in the otherwise undisturbed slipstream. Here are my thoughts on potential solutions: 1. To solve the inner gear door flutter issue, I should first minimize = the amount of inner gear door I have. The three-piece carbon set does = just that, according to my understanding. I'd like to start there. = Second, I can fiddle around with the hinge system further, but what I = would REALLY like to do is sequence the doors to close after the gear is = down. I plan on doing instrument work--it would be nice to be able to = drag the gear whenever I want without thinking about the doors. Has = anyone experimented with this? 2. For the rest of my problems, stiffer, smaller, better-designed doors = are the answer. My only hurdle is acquiring them--and that's where I'm = hoping for your help. Thanks for your time, and I really appreciate your help. I'm glad to be = part of the community! Louis Gabriel N61GH, KCVN _____ =20 No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3580 - Release Date: 04/17/11 ------=_NextPart_000_0149_01CBFDAF.57DB6010 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

If you can determine which direction the doors are distorting and/or = vibrating, you can use uni-directional graphite with better = results.

 

John Barrett

 

From:= = Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = PAUL HERSHORIN
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 9:10 = AM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: 360 = carbon/racing gear doors

 

I have the = outback gear doors--when building my plane I added a layer of carbon = fiber cloth to all doors on the inside.  By doing this it made the = doors strong enough so that they do not bend and they pull up tight when = closed.  I have never had any vibration or noise out of the = doors.

Paul = Hershorin

360  = 471LA

--- On Sun, 4/17/11, Danny Miller = <danny.miller@verizon.net> = wrote:


From: Danny Miller = <danny.miller@verizon.net>
Subject: [LML] Re: 360 carbon/racing = gear doors
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: Sunday, April 17, 2011, = 11:13 AM

Louis,

You=E2=80=99re not alone in these = questions.  If answers and comments come to you directly rather = than through LML, please share.

 

Danny = Miller

N 38=C2=B0 43' = 25.7"

W 77=C2=B0 30' = 38.6"

 

From:<= /b> = Louis Gabriel [mailto:louis@gabriels.us]
Sent: Saturday, = April 16, 2011 8:24 PM
To: = lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: 360 carbon/racing gear = doors

 

First, thanks for being such a great = community--I'm brand new to both general aviation and the Lancair game, = and I have never encountered a more patient and = willing-to-answer-dumb-questions bunch.  I was hoping you might = oblige me once more:

I am a new owner of a Lancair 360 Mk II with = outback gear...and I've been plagued with gear door problems.  None = of these are new or unsolved, but almost every piece of advice on the = LML and otherwise (namely n91cz.com) suggests the solution is a set of = three-piece, carbon fiber gear doors.

Where do they come = from?  How do I get a set?

For some (perhaps unnecessary) = background, here are the problems I'm having:
1. Inner gear door = flutter.  When the gear is extended, the inner gear doors move = around quite a bit in the prop wash (wearing out the hinge pin).  = I've mostly solved this by replacing the flimsy aluminum hinge with = stainless steel, but I still have some qualms about the permanence of my = solution.

2. High speed buffet.  I've found that the = trailing edge of my left inner gear door does not hold very effectively = against either the airframe or the outer door, which above about 180 kts = will occasionally start to buffet and buzz rather alarmingly.  = After determining this noise was not the imminent end of my flying = career, I found slowing down, cycling the gear (just enough to reseat = the inner doors), then speeding back up solved my problem.  Upon = swinging the gear, it's apparent the trailing edge of the inner gear = door is the issue.

3. Drag.  Even on the jack stands, there = is quite a bit of undercarriage material in the otherwise undisturbed = slipstream.

Here are my thoughts on potential solutions:
1. To = solve the inner gear door flutter issue, I should first minimize the = amount of inner gear door I have.  The three-piece carbon set does = just that, according to my understanding.  I'd like to start = there.  Second, I can fiddle around with the hinge system further, = but what I would REALLY like to do is sequence the doors to close after = the gear is down.  I plan on doing instrument work--it would be = nice to be able to drag the gear whenever I want without thinking about = the doors.  Has anyone experimented with this?

2. For the = rest of my problems, stiffer, smaller, better-designed doors are the = answer.  My only hurdle is acquiring them--and that's where I'm = hoping for your help.

Thanks for your time, and I really = appreciate your help.  I'm glad to be part of the = community!

Louis Gabriel
N61GH, = KCVN

No virus found in this = message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1209 / = Virus Database: 1500/3580 - Release Date: = 04/17/11

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