X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 10:38:00 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from qmta13.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.27.243] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c2o) with ESMTP id 4892831 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 06 Mar 2011 15:43:25 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.27.243; envelope-from=jimauman@comcast.net Received: from omta06.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.51]) by qmta13.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id FweZ1g00616AWCUADwio4L; Sun, 06 Mar 2011 20:42:48 +0000 Received: from OFFICE ([98.228.183.52]) by omta06.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id Fwik1g00W18ElD68Swim4e; Sun, 06 Mar 2011 20:42:47 +0000 From: "Jim Auman" X-Original-To: "'John Barrett'" , References: Subject: RE: [LML] DAR Inspection X-Original-Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 14:42:54 -0600 X-Original-Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0023_01CBDC0C.C8E15540" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcvahVpXlb9V+gWSSbej3vyFtFF2OgBtO+Xg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5994 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01CBDC0C.C8E15540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am providing you with the latest actual text from FAA ORDER 8130.2F = inc Chg 5. =20 =20 =20 DAR's are responsible for the following public information at time of Certification. =20 Note Par 151 e 1 (b). Note Par 152 a =20 Amateur-Builder Aircraft Fabrication and Assembly Checklist (2009) has been put on hold, but Form 8000-38 is still in existence for = the interim. (See page 223-227 of Order 8130.2F) =20 DAR's are assigned to Principal Airworthiness Inspectors in each area or region of our country. Somehow the DAR in your neighborhood will have = to get around this. If you are in mine, I am able to counsel you through = this. We do not get to modify or rewrite this order. Of course, an = Airworthiness safety Inspector ASI from your local FSDO/MIDO can do whatever they deem necessary under this Order, but it will take a variance. Call them and plead your special circumstance. =20 I am near Chicago. =20 Feel free to call. =20 Jim 630-886-0835 DAR Chicago MISO/VandaliaMIDO =20 151. ADVISING APPLICANTS. Many individuals who want to build their own aircraft have little or no experience with respect to aeronautical practices, workmanship, or design. An excellent source for advice in such matters is the Experiment Aircraft Association (EAA), = located in Oshkosh, Wisconsin. Information on EAA programs and benefits may be obtained via the EAA Web site at http://www.eaa.org. a. Contacting the FAA. Amateur builders who contact the FAA should be provided the information and guidance needed to ensure a thorough understanding of amateur-built regulations and requirements. The FAA should also explain the various points in the = process when FAA involvement may be necessary before construction proceeds. b. Providing FAA Forms for Registration and Certification. FAA MIDOs and FSDOs may furnish amateur builders with the following forms and ACs, or indicate = their availability on the Internet: (1) Form 8050-1, Aircraft Registration Application; (2) Form 8130-6, Application for Airworthiness Certificate; (3) Form 8130-12, Eligibility Statement, Amateur-Built Aircraft; (4) Aeronautical Center Form 8050-88, Affidavit of Ownership for Amateur-Built Aircraft; and (5) AC 20-27, Certification and Operation of Amateur-Built Aircraft. c. In-Process Inspections. The FAA usually will not perform in-process inspections for determining airworthiness during the fabrication and assembly process. However, the FAA has to make a determination that the aircraft is in a condition for safe operation. Therefore, the amateur builder's documentation needs to indicate all in-process inspections by = knowledgeable persons, such as EAA technical counselors or certificated mechanics. All in-process inspection documentation needs to include dates and names of all person(s) involved. d. FAA Pre-Cover Inspections. The FAA may conduct pre-cover inspections = at its own discretion during the fabrication and assembly process for the purpose = of determining if the major portion requirement of =A7 21.191(g) has been met. As with in-process inspections, all pre-cover inspections need to be thoroughly documented to include dates and names = of all person(s) involved. In no instance will the FAA perform any of the fabrication or = construction work on an aircraft they are certificating. =20 e. Proper Documentation. Amateur builder(s) need to be able to provide adequate and sufficient documentation to detail the construction and inspections of their = aircraft. (1) These records need to clearly indicate what was fabricated, = assembled, or inspected, by whom, and the date the activity was performed. (2) Documentation should clearly show who performed the task(s), = describe when and where the tasks were performed, depict the methods of acceptable aeronautical construction and practices, and document the use of commercial and noncommercial assistance. (3) The FAA must be provided with sufficient information to make a major portion determination. This documentation may include the following: (a) The Amateur-Built Aircraft Fabrication and Assembly Checklist = (2009). (b) Comprehensive builder's logs in any format, to include photographs = of all the steps included in each of the listed tasks in the Amateur-Builder Aircraft Fabrication and Assembly Checklist (2009), materials and techniques used in construction, as well as dates, locations, and detailed descriptions. =20 (c) Photographs/video/DVD. (d) Drawings and engineering specifications. (e) Kit manufacturer's data, when necessary. (f) Relevant documentation (for example, plans) and references (for = example, handbooks) used. (g) Documentation concerning any commercial assistance used, including receipts. (h) Documentation concerning any non-commercial assistance used. (i) Part inventories and histories. (j) Receipts and catalogs. (k) Logbook entries. f. Showing Compliance to =A7 91.319(b). The applicant should be advised = that after the experimental amateur-built airworthiness certificate has been issued, = they must show compliance to =A7 91.319(b). This is done by developing a flight test program that = addresses the requirements, goals, and objectives of each test flight. The flight test program should be = developed in accordance with AC 90-89, Amateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing Handbook, = or its equivalent in scope and detail. Flight test programs serve two purposes: (1) They ensure the aircraft has been adequately tested and determined = to be safe to fly within the aircraft's flight envelope. =20 establish emergency procedures. NOTE: The EAA Flight Advisor program has been established to assist applicants in developing flight test programs. 152. CERTIFICATION PROCEDURES. The procedures in these paragraphs = provide guidance concerning amateur-built airworthiness certification and the issuance of Form 8130-7, Special Airworthiness Certificate. FAA inspection of an amateur-built aircraft = will be limited to a general airworthiness inspection when the aircraft is submitted for = airworthiness certification. During this inspection, the FAA may not request extensive disassembly of the = aircraft if the amateur builder can provide documented evidence of fabrication, assembly, and in-process inspections. The only time disassembly should be requested is when there is a lack of adequate documentation as described above, or if there is a suspected safety issue that would endanger the public. a. Documentation in Support of Eligibility. It is necessary for the applicant to show and the FAA to find that the aircraft complies with the requirements of =A7 = 21.191(g). Common documentation in support of eligibility is typically in the form of a builder's log and substantiating photographs (refer to paragraph 151d for a complete list). b. Major Portion Determination. The FAA must always make a major portion determination when an amateur-built aircraft has been presented for certification. c. Deviating from Kits and/or Using Commercial Assistance. When the FAA identifies an aircraft as meeting the major portion requirement, at the time of certification, the FAA will review the applicant's documentation. Deviations from the FAA-identified kit configuration or changes that would result in an increase in the amount of commercial assistance will = require the FAA to determine (before fabrication and assembly, and using Amateur-Built Aircraft Fabrication = and Assembly Checklist (2009)) that the kit still meets the major portion requirement. d. FAA Responsibilities at the Time of Certification. At the time of airworthiness certification, the FAA must=AF (1) Ensure the aircraft is complete and all documentation is sufficient, credible, and adequate. If the applicant cannot, or will not, provide a statement of eligibility (Form 8130-12), or the documentation is inadequate to make a major portion determination, the applicant should be advised that the aircraft cannot be certificated as an amateur-built aircraft and a denial letter will be issued. (2) Examine records that the aircraft has been weighed in accordance = with established weight and balance procedures to determine the aircraft's empty, gross, and = most forward and aft CG location, including the weight and balance for the initial flight tests in order = to help reduce stall, spin, and other control-related accidents. (a) If the aircraft is self-designed, these limits would be determined = by the amateur builder's calculations. (b) If the aircraft is constructed from a kit or built from purchased = plans, relevant existing documentation is used. =20 _____ =20 From: wayne tassin [mailto:wtassin@hotmail.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 8:32 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: DAR Inspection =20 Fellows, =20 Getting close to that time for a DAR. =20 For those of you who have been there are photos and a builders log a requirement, I went exactly by the manuels so did'nt bother with logs = and most of the photos melted in the file cabinet in the hangar. =20 Any advise before I make the arrangements. Thanks Wayne Tassin =20 =20 _____ =20 From: John Barrett [mailto:jbarrett@carbinge.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 2:38 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: RE: [LML] DAR Inspection =20 I learned from my DAR that these are not needed at time of inspection = for the pink slip. However, if you want a maintenance approval you have to = go back to the FAA after you've flown off the hours to get that license or whatever it is called. At that time you'll need to produce said = documents. If you don't have, you may not be able to be the legal repair guy for = your bird. =20 No expertise on this subject claimed - just what my DAR told me. =20 John Barrett =20 From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = wayne tassin Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 6:32 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] DAR Inspection =20 Fellows, =20 Getting close to that time for a DAR. =20 For those of you who have been there are photos and a builders log a requirement, I went exactly by the manuels so did'nt bother with logs = and most of the photos melted in the file cabinet in the hangar. =20 Any advise before I make the arrangements. Thanks Wayne Tassin _____ =20 No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3477 - Release Date: 03/02/11 ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01CBDC0C.C8E15540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am providing you with the latest = actual text from FAA ORDER 8130.2F inc Chg 5.

 

 

 

DAR’s are responsible for the following public information at time of = Certification.

 

Note Par 151 e 1 = (b).

Note Par 152 = a

 

Amate= ur-Builder Aircraft Fabrication and Assembly Checklist

(2009= ) has been put on hold, but Form 8000-38 is still in existence for the = interim.   (See page 223-227 of Order 8130.2F)

 

DAR’s are assigned to = Principal Airworthiness Inspectors in each area or region of our country.=A0 = Somehow the DAR in your neighborhood will have to get around this.  If you are = in mine, I am able to counsel you through this.  We do not get to = modify or rewrite this order.=A0 =A0Of course, an Airworthiness safety Inspector = ASI from your local FSDO/MIDO can do whatever they deem necessary under this Order, = but it will take a variance.  Call them and plead your special = circumstance.

 

I am near Chicago.

 

Feel free to = call.

 

Jim  = 630-886-0835

DAR  Chicago = MISO/VandaliaMIDO

 

151. ADVISING APPLICANTS. = Many individuals who want to build their own aircraft have little = or

no experience with respect to = aeronautical practices, workmanship, or design. An excellent source = for

advice in such matters is the = Experiment Aircraft Association (EAA), located in Oshkosh, Wisconsin.

Information on EAA programs and = benefits may be obtained via the EAA Web site at

http://www.eaa.org.

a. Contacting the FAA. = Amateur builders who contact the FAA should be provided = the

information and guidance needed to = ensure a thorough understanding of amateur-built regulations = and

requirements. The FAA should also = explain the various points in the process when FAA = involvement

may be necessary before = construction proceeds.

b. Providing FAA Forms for Registration and Certification. FAA MIDOs and FSDOs may

furnish amateur builders with the following forms and ACs, or indicate their availability on the = Internet:

(1) Form 8050-1, Aircraft Registration Application;

(2) Form 8130-6, Application for Airworthiness = Certificate;

(3) Form 8130-12, Eligibility Statement, Amateur-Built = Aircraft;

(4) Aeronautical Center Form 8050-88, Affidavit of Ownership for Amateur-Built Aircraft; = and

(5) AC 20-27, Certification and Operation of Amateur-Built = Aircraft.

c. In-Process Inspections. = The FAA usually will not perform in-process inspections = for

determining airworthiness during = the fabrication and assembly process. However, the FAA has to = make

a determination that the aircraft = is in a condition for safe operation. Therefore, the amateur = builder’s

documentation needs to indicate all in-process inspections by knowledgeable persons, such = as

EAA technical counselors or = certificated mechanics. All in-process inspection documentation needs = to

include dates and names of all = person(s) involved.

d. FAA Pre-Cover Inspections. = The FAA may conduct pre-cover inspections at its = own

discretion during the fabrication = and assembly process for the purpose of determining if the = major

portion requirement of =A7 = 21.191(g) has been met. As with in-process inspections, all = pre-cover

inspections need to be thoroughly documented to include dates and names of all person(s) = involved.

In no instance will the FAA perform = any of the fabrication or construction work on an aircraft they = are

certificating.

 

e. Proper Documentation. = Amateur builder(s) need to be able to provide adequate and = sufficient

documentation to detail the = construction and inspections of their aircraft.

(1) These records need to clearly indicate what was fabricated, assembled, or = inspected, by

whom, and the date the activity was performed.

(2) Documentation should clearly show who performed the task(s), describe when and = where

the tasks were performed, depict = the methods of acceptable aeronautical construction and practices, = and

document the use of commercial and = noncommercial assistance.

(3) The FAA must be provided with sufficient information to make a major = portion

determination. This documentation = may include the following:

(a) The Amateur-Built Aircraft Fabrication and Assembly Checklist = (2009).

(b) = Comprehensive = builder’s logs in any format, to include photographs of all the = steps

incl= uded in each of the listed tasks in the Amateur-Builder Aircraft Fabrication and Assembly = Checklist

(2009)= , materials and techniques used in construction, as well as dates, = locations, and detailed

descri= ptions.=A0

(c) Photographs/video= /DVD.

(d) Drawings and engineering specifications.

(e) Kit manufacturer’s data, when necessary.

(f) Relevant documentation (for example, plans) and references (for example, = handbooks)

used.

(g) Documentation concerning any commercial assistance used, including = receipts.

(h) Documentation concerning any non-commercial assistance = used.

(i) Part inventories and histories.

(j) Receipts and catalogs.

(k) Logbook entries.

f. Showing Compliance to =A7 = 91.319(b). The applicant should be advised that after the

experimental amateur-built = airworthiness certificate has been issued, they must show compliance = to

=A7 91.319(b). This is done by = developing a flight test program that addresses the requirements, goals, = and

objectives of each test flight. The = flight test program should be developed in accordance = with

AC 90-89, Amateur-Built Aircraft = and Ultralight Flight Testing Handbook, or its equivalent in = scope

and detail. Flight test programs = serve two purposes:

(1) They ensure the aircraft has been adequately tested and determined to be safe = to fly within

the aircraft’s flight = envelope.

 

establish emergency = procedures.

NOTE: The EAA Flight Advisor = program has been established to assist

applicants in developing = flight test programs.

152. CERTIFICATION = PROCEDURES. The procedures in these paragraphs provide = guidance

concerning amateur-built = airworthiness certification and the issuance of Form 8130-7, = Special

Airworthiness Certificate. FAA = inspection of an amateur-built aircraft will be limited to a = general

airworthiness inspection when the = aircraft is submitted for airworthiness certification. During = this

inspection, the FAA may not request extensive disassembly of the aircraft if the amateur builder = can

provide documented evidence of fabrication, assembly, and in-process inspections. The only = time

disassembly should be requested is = when there is a lack of adequate documentation as described = above,

or if there is a suspected safety = issue that would endanger the public.

a. Documentation = in Support of Eligibility. It is necessary for the applicant to show and = the

FAA = to find that the aircraft complies with the requirements of =A7 21.191(g). = Common documentation in

suppor= t of eligibility is typi= cally in the form of a builder’s log and substantiating = photographs = (refer

to = paragraph 151d for a complete list).

b. Major Portion = Determination. The FAA must always make a major portion = determination

when an amateur-built aircraft has = been presented for certification.

c. Deviating from Kits and/or = Using Commercial Assistance. When the FAA = identifies an

aircraft as meeting the major = portion requirement, at the time of certification, the FAA will review = the

applicant’s documentation. Deviations from the FAA-identified kit configuration or changes that = would

result in an increase in the amount = of commercial assistance will require the FAA to determine = (before

fabrication and assembly, and using Amateur-Built Aircraft Fabrication and Assembly Checklist = (2009))

that the kit still meets the major = portion requirement.

d. FAA Responsibilities at = the Time of Certification. At the time of airworthiness certification,

the FAA = must=AF

(1) Ensure the aircraft is complete and all documentation is sufficient, credible, = and adequate.

If the applicant cannot, or will = not, provide a statement of eligibility (Form 8130-12), or = the

documentation is inadequate to make = a major portion determination, the applicant should be advised = that

the aircraft cannot be certificated = as an amateur-built aircraft and a denial letter will be = issued.

(2) Examine records that the aircraft has been weighed in accordance with = established weight

and balance procedures to determine = the aircraft’s empty, gross, and most forward and aft CG = location,

including the weight and balance = for the initial flight tests in order to help reduce stall, spin, and = other

control-related = accidents.

(a) If the aircraft is self-designed, these limits would be determined by the = amateur

builder’s = calculations.

(b) If the aircraft is constructed from a kit or built from purchased plans, = relevant existing

documentation is = used.

 

From: wayne = tassin [mailto:wtassin@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March = 02, 2011 8:32 PM
To: = lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: DAR = Inspection

 

Fellows,
 
Getting close to that time for a DAR.
 
For those of you who have been there are photos and a builders log a requirement, I went exactly by the manuels so did'nt bother with logs = and most of the photos melted in the file cabinet in the hangar.
 
Any advise before I make the arrangements.
            &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;    Thanks Wayne Tassin

 

 

From: John = Barrett [mailto:jbarrett@carbinge.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 03, = 2011 2:38 PM
To: = lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: RE: [LML] DAR = Inspection

 

I learned = from my DAR that these are not needed at time of inspection for the pink = slip.  However, if you want a maintenance approval you have to go back to the = FAA after you’ve flown off the hours to get that license or whatever = it is called.  At that time you’ll need to produce said = documents.  If you don’t have, you may not be able to be the legal repair guy = for your bird.

 <= /o:p>

No = expertise on this subject claimed – just what my DAR told = me.

 <= /o:p>

John = Barrett

 <= /o:p>

From: = Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of wayne tassin
Sent: Wednesday, March = 02, 2011 6:32 PM
To: = lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] DAR = Inspection

 

Fellows,
 
Getting close to that time for a DAR.
 
For those of you who have been there are photos and a builders log a requirement, I went exactly by the manuels so did'nt bother with logs = and most of the photos melted in the file cabinet in the hangar.
 
Any advise before I make the arrangements.
            &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;    Thanks Wayne Tassin

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3477 - Release Date: = 03/02/11

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