X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 16:52:05 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.89.69] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.8) with ESMTP id 4425171 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 10:37:46 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.86.89.69; envelope-from=colyncase@earthlink.net DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=KQKDSNc5d39gv+sk4XnGoj/chzgbhHXK4+cs921T4ZPCuxNi5H3qVH0IFmbFQoiD; h=Received:From:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:To:References:Message-Id:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [216.57.118.174] (helo=[192.168.1.133]) by elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Oipwz-0001lu-8K for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 10:37:09 -0400 From: Colyn Case Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1078) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-1-348634720 Subject: Re: [LML] Re: My Take on Oshkosh and Sun-nFun "2010" X-Original-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 10:37:08 -0400 In-Reply-To: X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: X-Original-Message-Id: <9530CC63-929E-4B08-962C-F2F77E2E0D09@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1078) X-ELNK-Trace: 63d5d3452847f8b1d6dd28457998182d7e972de0d01da940bf7855469443f6dc7eb85cadf8f3821d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 216.57.118.174 --Apple-Mail-1-348634720 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii thought experiment. If someone GAVE you the rights to build LIV/LIVP kits what would you = have to do to make it a viable business and manage the liability? Would = you stiplulate that only ex-military fighter jocks could buy your kits? = Would you have a clause that said that the airplane had to be ground to = scrap if the original buyer stopped flying it? Would you provide a = psycho-analysis to determine if the buyer had a "I paid my $500K, this = thing should take me anywhere anytime" kind of attitude? I'm not sure what I would do as a vendor. The Evolution seems to = address the stall characteristic issue but the fly high into = thunderstorms risk seems to still be present in the hands of one so = inclined. I think I would bundle flight training into the kit price and it would = include risk management, priority management. But that wouldn't solve = the problem for all pilots. On Aug 10, 2010, at 8:04 AM, Sky2high@aol.com wrote: > Craig, George, et al, > =20 > Think of it this way -- One Evoolution =3D 12 or 13 320/360s (15 = 235s) or 240 Yugos. If ya toss in training and insurance inspections, = the Yugos are way ahead - as cluster efficiency goes. > =20 > LNC2s need more mundane parts (Ace, True Value, Home Depot....) but = they are, uh, less, uh, profitable than the Captain Marvel parts needed = by ESes or the Lex Luther parts for the turbines. IVs are special, but = lost in limbo.....betwixt and between. > =20 > Mighty Mouse > endorsed by Olive Oyl =20 > =20 > In a message dated 8/9/2010 6:33:37 P.M. Central Daylight Time, = cgainza@msn.com writes: > George, >=20 > I could not agree with you more regarding the Lancair IV-P. I would = also include the ES line. There are no competitors at the IV-P or ES = price point. I would consider improving the both kits and requiring an = AOA on the IV-P. =20 >=20 > The Fadec Continental flight testing is done for the IV-P. No need = to delay state of the art electronics on Lancair aircraft. =20 >=20 > Don't get me wrong, I think the Evolution is a great airplane but at = greater than a million, you are competing with certified aircraft = capable of commercial operations that do not have to be built. >=20 > Craig Gainza > 680 hrs Lancair Fadec IV-P >=20 >=20 >=20 > To: lml@lancaironline.net > Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 15:04:51 -0400 > From: rosel_george@yahoo.com > Subject: [LML] My Take on Oshkosh and Sun-nFun "2010" >=20 > Hello to all the Lancair gang.... >=20 > I have a couple of comments to make about this years "little" (Ha!) = get together at Oshkosh. What a great event and wonderful turnout = considering the soggy conditions earlier in the week. I was there all = week and observed the following.... >=20 > #1. I watched the entire episode of the Jack Rousch "Beechcraft = Premier Jet" accident. He is very lucky to be alive and in fact very = lucky he didn't crash into the crowd. I first noticed him much too tight = in the pattern while on left down wind for runway 18R. At one point = while turning from base and overshooting the runway he was headed = directly at me and the crowd ... much too low and slow and out of = control! This was one of the poorest examples of piloting and judgment = that I have ever seen. I was shocked to later hear the name of the = pilot/owner and the facts about his prior accidents, etc. This is a = classic example of why we as Lancair owners need to continually stay = vigilant and focused within our own group through communication and = training. Like they say in the New York subway system ... "If you see = something.... Say something" . Just because we build these things or = have tons of experience, doesn't mean that we should necessarily be = flying them. We shouldn't sit back and let these kind of accidents = happen, especially within our own group. If someone isn't qualified ... = encourage them to get more education and training or fly something more = docile. Jeff Edwards and the LOBO group have done a wonderful job at = promoting and making available the tools needed to safely fly these = wonderful aircraft. They have brought on board more insurance options = and our accident rate has dramatically decreased in the last 12 months. = Hopefully the insurance companies will also help police the incompetent = Lancair pilots and not sell them insurance just to make a buck. These = responsibilities fall on all of us as owners and insurers of Lancairs ! = Join LOBO and stay plugged in to the LML !!! >=20 > On another topic ..... >=20 > #2. Prior to attending Oshkosh "2010", I also attended Sun-n-Fun in = April at Lakeland Florida with my 4P-Propjet. On both occasions I = observed a disturbing disassociation from Lancair International with its = "4-P" line of aircraft. In fact, at both of their displays a person = would have to look twice even to see the Lancair flags/logo over the = "Evolution" promotion and advertisement. It appears to me that the sales = force of Lancair has forgotten what brought them to the dance! With over = six hundred 4-P's in the world you would think that the 4's would be = their flagship and showcased extensively ! It's no wonder the 4-P sales = are down. Don't get me wrong... the Evolution is a great plane but is in = a different class as a 1.2 million dollar finished turbine aircraft. If = you agree with me I urge you to lobby the "powers to be " at Lancair to = get the 4-P's back in there promotional and advertising schemes. >=20 >=20 > Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated. >=20 > Regards, >=20 > ... George >=20 > PS... Please note that I am the owner and builder of two 4-P Turbines = and one is for sale. You can see it at www.lancairleasing.com >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 > =20 > George F. Rosel=20 > 2431 Lilac Dr.=20 > Liberal, Ks. 67901 > 620-624-8849 office=20 > 620-624-9409 fax=20 > 620-655-8217 cell .. or...... >=20 > 8907 Green Meadows Dr. > Littleton, Co. 80126 > 303-975-6629 home/fax >=20 >=20 > The Lodge at Timberline...FOR RENT !! > "Ski-in/Ski-out" Luxury home at Copper Mountain Colorado > For info... http://www.vrbo.com/254739 >=20 > =20 > George F. Rosel=20 > 2431 Lilac Dr.=20 > Liberal, Ks. 67901 > 620-624-8849 office=20 > 620-624-9409 fax=20 > 620-655-8217 cell .. or...... >=20 > 8907 Green Meadows Dr. > Littleton, Co. 80126 > 303-975-6629 home/fax >=20 >=20 > The Lodge at Timberline...FOR RENT !! > "Ski-in/Ski-out" Luxury home at Copper Mountain Colorado > For info... http://www.vrbo.com/254739 >=20 >=20 > =3D --Apple-Mail-1-348634720 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

I'm not = sure what I would do as a vendor.   The Evolution seems to address = the stall characteristic issue but the fly high into thunderstorms risk = seems to still be present in the hands of one so = inclined.

I think I would bundle flight = training into the kit price and it would include risk management, = priority management.    But that wouldn't solve the problem = for all pilots.


On Aug 10, 2010, = at 8:04 AM, Sky2high@aol.com = wrote:

Craig, George, et al,
 
Think of it this way -- One  Evoolution =3D 12 or 13 320/360s = (15 235s)=20 or 240 Yugos.  If ya toss in training and insurance inspections, = the Yugos=20 are way ahead - as cluster efficiency goes.
 
LNC2s need more mundane parts (Ace, True Value, Home = Depot....) but=20 they are, uh,  less, uh, profitable than the Captain = Marvel parts=20 needed by ESes or the Lex Luther parts for the turbines.  IVs are = special,=20 but lost in limbo.....betwixt and between.
 
Mighty Mouse
endorsed by Olive Oyl  
 
In a message dated 8/9/2010 6:33:37 P.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 cgainza@msn.com writes:
George,

I could not = agree with you more regarding the=20 Lancair IV-P.  I would also include the ES line.  There are=20= no competitors at the IV-P or ES price point. I would consider=20= improving the both kits and requiring an AOA on the IV-P. =20

The  Fadec Continental flight testing is done for the = IV-P. =20 No need to delay state of the art electronics on Lancair = aircraft. =20

Don't get me wrong, I think the Evolution is a great airplane = but at=20 greater than a million, you are competing with certified aircraft = capable of=20 commercial operations that do not have to be built.

Craig = Gainza
680=20 hrs Lancair Fadec IV-P



To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: = Mon, 9 Aug 2010 15:04:51 -0400
From:=20 rosel_george@yahoo.com
Subje= ct: [LML] My Take on Oshkosh and Sun-nFun=20 "2010"

=20
Hello=20 to all the Lancair gang....

I have a couple of comments to make = about=20 this years "little" (Ha!) get together at Oshkosh. What a great event = and=20 wonderful turnout considering the soggy conditions earlier in the = week. I was=20 there all week and observed the following....

#1.  I = watched the=20 entire episode of the Jack Rousch "Beechcraft Premier Jet"  accident. = He is very=20 lucky to be alive and in fact very lucky he didn't crash into the = crowd. I=20 first noticed him much too tight in the pattern while on left down = wind for=20 runway 18R.  At one point while turning from base and = overshooting the=20 runway he was headed directly at me and the crowd ... much too low and = slow=20 and out of control! This was one of the poorest examples of piloting = and=20 judgment that I have ever seen. I was shocked to later hear the name = of the=20 pilot/owner and the facts about his prior accidents, etc. This is a = classic=20 example of why we as Lancair owners need to continually stay vigilant = and=20 focused within our own group through communication and training. Like = they say=20 in the New York subway system ... "If you see something.... Say = something" .=20 Just because we build these things or have tons of experience, doesn't = mean=20 that we should necessarily be flying them. We shouldn't sit back and = let these=20 kind of accidents happen, especially within our own group. If someone = isn't=20 qualified ... encourage them to get more education and training or fly=20= something more docile. Jeff Edwards and the LOBO group have done a = wonderful=20 job at promoting and making available the tools needed to safely fly = these=20 wonderful aircraft. They have brought on board more insurance options = and our=20 accident rate has dramatically decreased in the last 12 months. = Hopefully the=20 insurance companies will also=20 help police the incompetent Lancair pilots and not sell them insurance = just to=20 make a buck. These responsibilities fall on all of us as owners and = insurers=20 of  Lancairs ! Join LOBO and stay plugged in to the LML = !!!

On=20 another topic .....

#2.  Prior to attending Oshkosh = "2010", I also=20 attended Sun-n-Fun in April at Lakeland Florida with my = 4P-Propjet.  On both=20 occasions I observed a disturbing disassociation from Lancair = International=20 with its "4-P" line of aircraft. In fact, at both of their displays a = person=20 would have to look twice even to see the Lancair flags/logo over the=20= "Evolution" promotion and advertisement. It appears to me that the = sales force=20 of Lancair has forgotten what brought them to the dance! With over six = hundred=20 4-P's in the world you would think that the 4's would be their = flagship and=20 showcased extensively ! It's no wonder the 4-P sales are down. Don't = get me=20 wrong... the Evolution is a great plane but is in a different class as = a 1.2=20 million dollar finished turbine aircraft. If you agree with me I urge = you to=20 lobby the "powers to be " at Lancair to get the 4-P's back in there=20 promotional and advertising schemes.


Any comments or = suggestions=20 would be appreciated.

Regards,

... = George

PS...=20 Please note that I am the owner and builder of two 4-P Turbines and = one is for=20 sale. You can see it at    www.lancairleasing.com


 =20    
 
George F. Rosel
2431 Lilac Dr. =
Liberal, Ks.=20 67901
620-624-8849 = office
620-624-9409 fax
620-655-8217 cell ..=20 or......

8907 Green Meadows Dr.
Littleton, Co.=20 80126
303-975-6629 = home/fax


The Lodge at Timberline...FOR RENT !!
"Ski-in/Ski-out" Luxury = home at=20 Copper = Mountain=20 Colorado
For info... http://www.vrbo.com/254739=20

 
George F. Rosel
2431 Lilac Dr.
Liberal, Ks.=20= 67901
620-624-8849 office
620-624-9409 fax
620-655-8217 = cell ..=20 or......

8907 Green Meadows Dr.
Littleton, Co. 80126
303-975-6629=20 home/fax


The Lodge at Timberline...FOR RENT !!
"Ski-in/Ski-out" Luxury = home at=20 Copper Mountain Colorado
For info... http://www.vrbo.com/254739=20 =


=3D

= --Apple-Mail-1-348634720--