X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2010 21:42:34 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail-pw0-f52.google.com ([209.85.160.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.8) with ESMTP id 4414110 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 13:00:12 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.160.52; envelope-from=vonjet@gmail.com Received: by pwi7 with SMTP id 7so1341871pwi.25 for ; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 09:59:37 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=TTPBOQQxKO/uB34iZsMp9Jx1S4S7RXMRIfoxaS4RDSg8oiZ2l7xTIuOPPmjg/WHLlE 0N7NXaWpG3iH0o45ks/1+nQ9R78Byl/MAY5SvXrF5+8sWYCX2m+nNmwQfa/5dNhCK0+D aQQN3uADjWt+wTOFlUWU3E8og+eOg/FoG9NEY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.141.8 with SMTP id o8mr4324568wfd.243.1280681976756; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 09:59:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.213.19 with HTTP; Sun, 1 Aug 2010 09:59:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: X-Original-Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 09:59:36 -0700 X-Original-Message-ID: Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Welcome to Spokane From: Bryan Wullner X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd32f244b7bb5048cc6024e --000e0cd32f244b7bb5048cc6024e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The Call Should begin with something closer to "there is a problem with our line service training program. It didn't allow for our workers to be properly trained and checked out to use our equipment thus allowing us to damage your property while attempting to tow it." Start by asking if they have an SMS (safety management system) in place. If so, ask to see the work instructions for that equipment and training records for who is trained and checked out to use that equipment. If they have that stuff in place and guys were using it without proper training you have a good starting point and they were breaking their own policies. If they do not have an SMS or a training program for the line service usage of the tugs then again you have a good start for claim against them as they have no business moving your aircraft with untrained personnel. Good FBO's will have a training program and document all of it. They will have a check out sheet that shows which employees have been properly trained on what equipment and if they are signed off to use it. And in some cases they are only signed off on certain aircraft. This is all assuming they don't want to step up and pay for the damage. And for everyone else if you want to avoid stuff like this from happening to you have the FBO write on your file or leave a note at the front desk if your transient that says your aircraft is NOT to be moved without approval from you or you present. Bryan On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 12:47 PM, David Standish wrote: > > > Subject: Re: lml Digest #3103 Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 10:59:14 -0600 From: > David Standish To: Lancair > Mailing List References: > > > The line crew was moving the airplane to another tie down after I had > departed the FBO. Apparently they attempted to pull the ship onto the nose > gear platform of the tug with the propeller lower blade in a near vertical > position. As they winched the plane on to the machine the propeller > contacted some structure on the machine. They kept pulling until they > realized (too late) that something was wrong. > > The attached picture is the type of tug involved but not the specific > model. > > One does not really want to get a call from an FBO beginning with "there is > a problem with your airplane." > > David > > > > Lancair Mailing List wrote: > > Lancair Mailing List Digest #3103 > > 1) Re: eaawifi > by "Ken" > 2) Re: Welcome to Spokane > by cfi@instructor.net > > This digest is sent to you because you are subscribed to > the mailing list . > For archives and help click http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/Lists/lml/List.html > LML website: http://www.lancaironline.net/maillist.html > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: > Re: eaawifi > From: > "Ken" > Date: > Thu, 29 Jul 2010 07:45:49 -0400 > To: > lml@lancaironline.net > To: > lml@lancaironline.net > Colyn, > > I have not tried the north 40, but have had no problems around the forums > area. > > Ken Kellner > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colyn Case" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 8:37 AM > Subject: eaawifi > > > > has anyone figured out how and where to get a computer Usefully connected > to eaawifi? my iphone logs in just fime but no luck with the mac here in > north40 > Sent from my iPhone > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: > Re: [LML] Welcome to Spokane > From: > cfi@instructor.net > Date: > Thu, 29 Jul 2010 07:45:49 -0400 > To: > lml@lancaironline.net > To: > lml@lancaironline.net > > Dave, > You can't leave us hanging like that. What happened? Was the tug > moving, the airplane moving or what? > > Ron > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Standish > To: lml@lancaironline.net > Sent: Wed, Jul 28, 2010 7:57 pm > Subject: [LML] Welcome to Spokane > > Propeller Vs. tug. Tug wins! > > Time since new 260 hours. Propeller repair/over haul starting at around > $2,000 could be very much higher. Engine tear down inspection and mandatory > replacement parts starting at $10,000 could be very much higher not counting > removal and re installation and shipping. Down time 4 weeks minimum. No > lawyers involved, yet. > > David Standish > N32CL > > -- > > > For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html > > > > > -- > For archives and unsub > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html > > --000e0cd32f244b7bb5048cc6024e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Call Should begin with something closer to "there is a problem wit= h our line service training program. It didn't allow for our workers to= be properly trained and checked out to use our equipment thus allowing us = to damage your property while attempting to tow it."=A0
Start by asking if they have an SMS (safety management system) in place. If= so, ask to see the work instructions for that equipment and training recor= ds for who is trained and checked out to use that equipment.=A0
If they have that stuff in place and guys were using it without proper trai= ning you have a good starting point and they were breaking their own polici= es.=A0
If they do not have an SMS or a training program for the l= ine service usage of the tugs then again you have a good start for claim ag= ainst them as they have no business moving your aircraft with untrained per= sonnel. Good FBO's will have a training program and document all of it.= They will have a check out sheet that shows which employees have been prop= erly trained on what equipment and if they are signed off to use it. And in= some cases they are only signed off on certain aircraft.=A0
This is all assuming they don't want to step up and pay for the da= mage.
And for everyone else if you want to avoid stuff like this = from happening to you have the FBO write on your file or leave a note at th= e front desk if your transient that says your aircraft is NOT to be moved w= ithout approval from you or you present.

Bryan




<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 12:47 PM, David Standish = <carbonflier@= gmail.com> wrote:
=20


Subject: Re: lml Digest #3103
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 10:59:14 -0600
From: David Standish <carbonflier@gmail.com>
To: Lancair Mailing List <lml@lancaironline.net>
References: <l= ist-4411883@logan.com>


The line crew was moving the airplane to another tie down after I had departed the FBO.=A0 Apparently they attempted to pull the ship onto the nose gear platform of the tug with the propeller lower blade in a near vertical position. As they=A0 winched the plane on to the machine the propeller contacted some structure on the machine.=A0 They kept pulling until they realized (too late) that something was wrong.

The attached picture is the type of tug involved but not the specific model.

One does not really want to get a call from an FBO beginning with "there is a problem with your airplane."

David



Lancair Mailing List wrote: 
        Lancair Mailing List Digest #3103

 1) Re: eaawifi
    by "Ken" <kkellner1@new.rr.com>
 2) Re: Welcome to Spokane
    by cfi@instruct=
or.net

This digest is sent to you because you are subscribed to
  the mailing list <lml@lancaironline.net>.
For archives and help click http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/Lists/=
lml/List.html
LML website: http://www.lancaironline.net/maillist.html


Subject:
Re: eaawifi
From:
"Ken" &= lt;kkellner1@new.rr.com>
Date:
Thu, 29 Jul 2010 07:45:49 -0400
To:
lml@lanc= aironline.net
To:
lml@lanc= aironline.net

Colyn,

I have not tried the north 40, but have had no problems around the forums area.

Ken Kellner

----- Original Message ----- From: "Colyn Case" <colyncas= e@earthlink.net>
To: <lml@lanc= aironline.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 8:37 AM
Subject: eaawifi



has anyone figured out how and where to get a computer Usefully=A0 connected to eaawifi?=A0 my iphone logs in just fime but no luck with=A0 the mac here in north40
Sent from my iPhone




Subject:
Re: [LML] Welcome to Spokane
From:
cfi@instruc= tor.net
Date:
Thu, 29 Jul 2010 07:45:49 -0400
To:
lml@lanc= aironline.net
To:
lml@lanc= aironline.net

Dave,
=A0=A0 You can't leave us hanging like that.=A0=A0 What happened?=A0=A0= Was the tug moving, the airplane moving or what?

Ron




---= --Original Message-----
From: David Standish <carbonflier@gmail.com>
To: lml@lancairo= nline.net
Sent: Wed, Jul 28, 2010 7:57 pm
Subject: [LML] Welcome to Spokane

Propelle= r Vs. tug. Tug wins!=A0
=A0
Time since new 260 hours. Propeller repair/over haul starting at around $2,000 could be very much higher. Engine tear down inspection and mandatory replacement parts starting at $10,000 could be very much higher not counting removal and re installation and shipping. Down time 4 weeks minimum. No lawyers involved, yet.=A0
=A0
David Standish=A0
N32CL=A0



--
For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/L= ist.html


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